qualify teachers for any martial arts?

[still learning]

Hello, After reading the many threads, I have notice one of the problems for most styles is the quality of teachers. Today Black belts are a dime a dozen? ( black belt no meaning today). Any one can open a martial arts school,call it what he wants and collect the fees.

What are your thoughts on this? Should there be a universal requirements for teaching the Martial Arts? A licence by the States?....Aloha

 

[jfarnsworth]

Unfortunately none of that could ever happen. There are far too many "fly by nights" out there praying that someone will walk through their doors for the all mighty dollar. It's too bad after they converse with someone or check out another studio where there is quality instruction and find out they have been hosed. In today's day and age most people want something for nothing and put forth as little effort as possible to get it. It would be nice if there was a sanctioning body to oversee what needs overseen but :idunno: it just wouldn't be possible. Great idea but not possible.

However there are still some of us out there that strive for more and better themselves by aligning themselves with quality instruction. :ultracool

 

[Blooming Lotus]

When you take into account all the backyard dojos ( not of all which are dodgy) that standardisation would be impossible to police. Then you have the matter of compulsory forms and so on, and no doubt , alot of creativity and past aspects would be lost.

If you're really concerned Shi Xing Hao has some great tips on his website www.houstonshaolin.com on what to look for in a school and what questions to ask . Feel free not to be bullied or hustled into accepting instruction you're not happy with. The more martial artistry spreads the more chances you have of stumbling across either or, and if you do have a query on a school or teacher or aspect of either, thank the mods for MT and perpetuating a world wide member base you can fire your questions to

Blooming Lotus

 

[Bob Hubbard]

You will hear the term "McDojo" tossed around alot. When you look into things and have the 'mcdojo' list in hand, 1 thing to remember is that commercial school is not always a mcdojo, and a mcdojo is not always commercial. Many fakirs work out of ommunity ed, garages and fitness centers.

The problem with a standardized board is just who gets to sit on that board and pass judgement on the legit/not legit? Certain groups have significant cash to toss around, yet their own arts are rather weak in practical usefullness today. Certain other arts are extremely effective, yet lack popular visibility and cash to ensure they meet the 'standards'.

One must also keep in mind that the greater the control the government applies to the arts, the more likely they are to become watered down and ineffectual.

The best sollution to ensuring quality in arts is to ask lots of questions, check the answers, use forums like this, the Better Business groups, etc.

 

[MA-Caver]

The same problem arises even in other teaching environment as well. Particularly in the field of fitness, physical endeavors and outdoors.
Many, many people tell me I should be a caver-guide for hire because that's my speciality. Problem is that getting insurance requires an assurance (on my part) that I know exactly what I'm doing. Well, humbly speaking... I do. But how do I prove it? I have no certificate on my wall or a card in my wallet. There is no standards set really for taking someone into a cave, even as dangerous or dogey as a vertical cave. There is one however for cave rescue interestingly enough. The folks I take will just have to take my word for it and literally put their life into my hands with the ropes I rig up and the equiptment I (sometimes) loan out for the trip. No one is regulating me... but to my credit and to the credit of those who trained me, no-one has ever had a serious (read: requiring a full blown rescue call-out) complication/injury on my trips. Mainly because I take safety seriously and will not force anyone to do something they are sketchy with. But that's me... what about Joe Blow? Or even the folks that I have trained? I hope (and hope a lot) that they will be as safety conciencious as I am but when I feel comfortable with them then I will tell them that they can lead their own trips if they ask me.

So, same principal kinda goes with MA teachers. The difference is that a good teacher will have documentation of their lineage to show that yes, they have indeed trained for X # of years and have been qualified in turn by those of higher rank/belts. One (Kenpo) school I know has had GM Ed Parker Jr. come and pass off their black-belts to their next rank. So at least if someone asks me about this particular school then I can say with assurance that the instructors are indeed qualified because a GM has come to qualify them and that particular GM has been qualified by those before him and so forth. That I think is the advantage that MA instructors have, is proof of lineage of instructors and the integrity of those instructors not to qualify someone unless they shown (them) that they do know the art well to that point/belt.

But again, anyone can fake it if they are artful and low enough. So how would the average wanna-be gonna know for sure that its for real or for fake? The trophies in the front window don't say squat (IMO) of the quality of the instructor. Because unless they are legit, those so called fancy-smancy trophies could've been bought at any trophy shoppe and the plaque made up to whatever suits the fancy of the faker. Same goes for webpages and certificates and everything else that's used by the honest and dishonest alike. The difference is obviously between the honest and dishonest individual.

Time will tell for the ignorant and well informed alike. People should be well advised to research a school throughly and to ask hard questions and see proof of lineage and so forth. Integrity is a good thing, it's a great thing... just sometimes it's hard to find unless you know where/how to look.

I like the quote from Goldendragon7 "Time will either promote you or expose you!" because that says it all about a lot of things.

My two bits. :asian:

 

[Blooming Lotus]

More often than not, most or many "good" schools and teachers will have a rep with others in the industry anyway..... like here for example

 

[still learning]

Hello, Thank-you for your answers. There were somethings you mention that I have not thought about. Your are right? Impossible to do? and to do it right and fair too?

 

[Blooming Lotus]

yah it's alright!!! You study what you choose, and if a mcdojo covers your needs , by all means, mac - fu - on !

BL

Not everyone is a traditionalist preservationist and that is what makes the ma world go round.

cheers and find peace your practice, what ever it is.

 

[Drac]

Unfortunately none of that could ever happen. There are far too many "fly by nights" out there praying that someone will walk through their doors for the all mighty dollar. It's too bad after they converse with someone or check out another studio where there is quality instruction and find out they have been hosed. In today's day and age most people want something for nothing and put forth as little effort as possible to get it. It would be nice if there was a sanctioning body to oversee what needs overseen but :idunno: it just wouldn't be possible. Great idea but not possible.

However there are still some of us out there that strive for more and better themselves by aligning themselves with quality instruction. :ultracool

Couldn't have said it beter myself...An excellent post...

 

[KenpoTess]

Mod Note-
Thread moved to more appropriate Forum.

~Tess
-MT S. Mod-

 

[sasquatchnaruto]

I would like to see something like it but it wont happen since each art is different and you really cant keep them together on a set scale, I think that you should have the permission from the grandmaster of your art or the leader of it before you can open one though

 

[Kenpodoc]

The real strength in Martial Arts lies in its variety and the lack of a standardizing board. Of course this means that the buyer must be careful but fortunately there are choices everywhere and opportunities to compare at seminars etc. I find that boards of experts tend to create mediocrity and that individuals sometimes create innovative growth.

Jeff

 

[OC Kid]

People take the arts for many reasons. Some to work out loose weight ect. Some because they are looking for a boyfriend or girlfriend much like a health club. Others for the commeraderie some for the discipline and yet other for self defense.
So to button hole the MA or the instructor is rather difficult. What is a MC Dojo to me maybe perfect for you.

As far as most of the fakes teaching out their garages rec centers ect, well I have to take issue with that. I teach out of my garage. I assure you I am qualified.
I do it because I enjoy it, I teach for free, I teach my son and some disadvantaged kids in the neighborhood who otherwise couldnt pay to go to one of your fancy schools.
During a recent "field trip" my student smoked the students of one of your fancy schools in tournament fighting which is what that school specialized in. I also took my son up North and he fought in 3 other FT dojos taught by respectable Instructors from the system I originally got ranked in 20 plus years ago and point for point beat every one under brown. I say point for point because he is only 10 soon to be 11 and he fought everyone from his age to adults. Not to mention he has defended himself as I said in previous post from multiple attackers successfully also.

Most recently (about 4 weeks ago) He defended himself with out hurting the kid who was attacking him from a kid who out weighed him by about 10-15 lbs which is alot for a 10-11 y.o.

So I think you do have to becareful about the back yard/ garage dojo but no more than you would the high class top dollar school. it is the instructors motives for teachng you have to becareful about.

It is also the quality of training and whether it meet your needs or not whatever your needs maybe.

 

[LIFEGUARDTKD]

Bingo! I agree that motivation (the teachers heart) comes through in the class and in the competition arena. Teachers that start talking about money right away or who insist on a long term contract before you even get to ask any questions are a fairly good indicator that you should head for the door.

 

[Deflecting_the_Storm]

Hmm under those classifications of fakers, then Bruce Lee would be one., Ed parker and the dozens of others who trained and taught in their garages and backyards. Eventually they opened schools but they first taught out of their homes and in fitness centers. The biggest problem I have with "Mcdojos" (thats a great term by the way) is the false sense of security. Teaching people what they call self-defense and sending these people blindly out there with this info running around in their heads. I cant blame the average joe that doesnt know anything about martial arts but thats what the "Mcdojos" thrive on. I wish we could have some organization to oversee what is being taught but it can never happen. There would be no way to prove what anyone was teaching. What I do agree with is the fact that organizations get together in order to stay alive financially, but individuals do create and promote originality. This problem is one that I have been fighting for awhile now. If you could see what people teach and call self-defense. I dont want to name names because I have already been involved in one situation expressing my opinion, but to see whats real, just go to a tournament and watch. You can see, without knowing anything, who practices true arts, and those who practice a money making machine.

 

[terryl965]

Martial Arts has become buyer beware, so many Master's of everything it would be impossible to unite everyone under one common teacher certificate. Too many styles to many fake organizations, to many balloon head that have to run everything. 25 to 30 years ago they tried to unite everyone under one banner all that did was start the MA wars of who Art was better. The Art is only has good as the teacher and everybody learned from someone who learned from someone and so on and so on. So many different variations of the same art, if people from the same art can't get along how do you suppose the get along with others styles.

 

[OC Kid]

we can all join this guys system



http://www.ashidakim.com/

hehehehe

 

[terryl965]

wow I to can be a ninja for 55.00, sign me up forget about hard training and stuff just buy his books and you too can be a lethal weapon in a matter of minutes. GOD BLESS THIS COUTRY and all those precious people who will make this man a millionaire in do time...

 

[Deflecting_the_Storm]

man this guy and his website is the funniest thing in the world, but he actually thinks people will take it seriously. This is the extreme when I talk about "MCdojos", but still its entertaining!!!

 

[TChase]

we can all join this guys system



http://www.ashidakim.com/

hehehehe

Holy crap! Read this. This guy has serious issues!!!


Ashida Kim has issued the following response:


"I am the Ninja, himself. I come from the nowhere, I go to the no place. I have no magic power. Anyone can do the things I do, if they but know how. I am a professional soldier and fighter. I have videotape, press clippings, and receipts to verify this claim, should it become necessary in open court. As such, I am forbidden by law and convention from engaging in personal combat, since my hands and feet are considered lethal weapons.

"However, as a martial artist and a man, I am offended and annoyed by those who write in questioning my credentials or ability, when none of them has ever taken the time to meet, speak with, or write to me. And, they know this. So they make a point of baiting me. And, when I respond with anything but utter servility, they jump back, point their finger and proclaim that I have a chip on my shoulder, to prove they are superior. This is childish.

"Others write in claiming to know more about my system of Ninjitsu than I do, despite the fact that I have written fifteen books on the subject and they have written none. Or, questioning the manner in which our martial arts fraternity, of which I am honored to even be a part, grades or tests or sanctions its membership, of which they are not worthy, nor included. Even comparing our system to other forms of the Silent Way, as if all had to be the same. Saying I appropriated this or that technique from some other martial art, as if there were more than a few basic methods from which an infinite number of variations can be composed.

"Some have even gone so far as to send spies against me or come themselves on some pretext. And, when they do, they find that I am not at all like they expected. For, that is the nature of mystery. But, they all get what they came for, because that is the nature of understanding.

"Therefore, in response to these challenges, I set the following conditions, in accordance with the time honored tradition recognized in China and Europe amongst duelists that the challenger is a fool and the challenged must be permitted certain latitude in defending his life and property in the interest of fairness.

"First, since most of the challenges are frivolous, being generated by those who have some grudge with their own masters but who are afraid to face them and so select a surrogate upon whom to vent their anger and frustration; and, in light of my own professional status, Challengers must post an Appearance Bond of $25,000 to guarantee that they will actually show up for the fight, limiting the number of unnecessary trips to meet these loudmouths who then don't show up despite all their braggadocio. Only serious contestants need apply. If the Challenger fails to appear in the Ring within five minutes of being called for his Match, the Bond is forfeit to the Challenged, the Challenger is disqualified, and the Match awarded to the Challenged.

"Second, as a professional fighter, my fee is $10,000. Which will be paid by the Challenger 30 days before the match. Also, Challenger will pay travel expenses for myself and a party of three to the site of the match and provide food and lodging for the Party for the duration of the event.

"Third, Challenger will provide documentation and certification from local sports authorities governing such events attesting to their physical fitness and credentials sufficient to demonstrate their ring worthiness, and sign an irrevocable release absolving Ashida Kim, his agents and assignees from any financial, criminal, or moral liability in the event the Challenger is killed, crippled, or maimed.

"Fourth, the Match will be held in a public venue to which admission is paid, of which, the Challenged will receive one-half of all gate and concession receipts. A member of the Party will supervise ticket and concession sales and all amounts due will be paid before the match. No dough, no show. The reason for this stipulation is that I have fought many times in alleys to defend my honor, only to have the tale told by the loser of how he kicked my ***. Therefore, credible and numerous witnesses are required to prevent any disinformation.

"Fifth, Ashida Kim will be declared the winner in the event of a 5-second pinfall, submission by the opponent using matte or pat-out, if the opponent is unable to answer the bell, if the opponent is knocked out or rendered unconscious by a choke or stranglehold for a standard referee's 10-count, if the Ringside Physician determines he is unable to continue, if he fails to appear for the match, or is disqualified for unsportsmanlike conduct. No judges, no holds barred, last man standing is the Champ.

"Now, I do not make this Challenge lightly. Nor with belligerence toward anyone. I have proven myself to myself many times and I know that the true test is getting up each day to joyfully participate in the sorrow that is one's life. What these Challenges want is to do that, to prove themselves to themselves to overcome their own insecurity and have self-confidence. And, I say unto all of you that this journey is an internal one. That peace and harmony come from within, not by imposing your will on a world that will not change to suit you, but will continue to change in spite of you. But rather by making this inner journey and facing your own dark side. That is the lesson of all religions, of which martial arts is but one. Of which Ninjitsu is but a part, of which I am but an infinitesimal speck. Certainly not worthy of all this bluster and rancor. I have never done anything to any of you people. All I have done is try to perfect my own character, live a fair and honest life, and share what little I have learned with those who have gone to the great trouble of seeking it out. For this crime I have been called a fake and a charlatan by those have no idea where I have been or the things I have done. I have been robbed by my publishers, cheated by the government, and endured the slings and arrows of those who have not one-tenth my skill. I have not asked anyone to accept what I say as The Truth, only as A Truth. I have demanded no tribute, conquered no lands, imprisoned no people. I am the innocent victim of attack by those who cannot or will not behave in a civilized manner. So, if you write in popping off at the mouth, looking for a lesson, you've have come to the right place. I don't take tests, because I have nothing to prove. I give tests, because I am a Teacher, and have State certification to prove it! So, if you want a piece of my ***, come on up and get you a bite, 'cause I got plenty. Don't bite off more than you can chew, however. 'Cause you ain't seen bad yet, but, it's coming. You put up the money and I shall be most happy to embarrass you in front of all your friends. 'Nuff said." I remain,
Ashida Kim