Q an A

[TSUNAMIKENPO]

In Ed Parkers Infinite insights vol 5 SGM Parker put 154 self defence techniques as the MINIUMUM STANDARD Lee Wedlake says there are over 200 self defence techniques. Any one know of these? Where I can Find them.
Tsunami Kenpo

 

[Goldendragon7]

In Ed Parkers Infinite insights vol 5 SGM Parker put 154 self defence techniques as the MINIUMUM STANDARD Lee Wedlake says there are over 200 self defence techniques. Any one know of these? Where I can Find them.
Tsunami Kenpo

Well, for that question you should go to the source .... Lee Wedlake. I really don't know what he is talking about. I have my suspicions and opinions as to what he means but without asking him directly it would only be a guess.

The Base to the system IS the 154 that is well publicized.

:asian:

 

[Drifter]

Mr. GD7,

I'm still very low ranking, and working on Long 2 at the moment, but I was wondering, since the Long Forms have isolations at the end of them that give a preview of what's to come, does the end of Long 6 preview Long 7, and does the end of Long 7 preview Long 8? I was just wondering due to the transition from empty hands to clubs to knives. Thank you in advance, Sir!

 

[Dark Kenpo Lord]

In Ed Parkers Infinite insights vol 5 SGM Parker put 154 self defence techniques as the MINIUMUM STANDARD Lee Wedlake says there are over 200 self defence techniques. Any one know of these? Where I can Find them.
Tsunami Kenpo

If you count the extensions to the techs, there are 250 total. I was taught the extension is a technique in and of itself and teach it that way as well. Squeezing the Peach is designed for a Bear Hug, Arms Pinned, the catalyst for this tech. is the opponent pulling back. When you have the ext., it can alone be a technique if the catalyst is your opponent is pushing you forward.


DarK LorD

 

[MisterMike]

In Ed Parkers Infinite insights vol 5 SGM Parker put 154 self defence techniques as the MINIUMUM STANDARD Lee Wedlake says there are over 200 self defence techniques. Any one know of these? Where I can Find them.
Tsunami Kenpo

When/Where did he say that? I'm going to wager that most of the techniques above the original 154 were not developed by Ed Parker. Same goes for most of the extensions past the original 32 orange belt extensions. They were made up by a few of his senior students, and may have had his stamp of approval, but they weren't developed by the man.

Richard Planas is credited with the first 9/10 of the 154 techniques (Yellow).
Someone else created the staff set.
Form 6 was the last form by Parker. Note the special closing in the final salute. 7 and 8 are weapons forms that some schools do not even teach.

 

[Dark Kenpo Lord]

I'm going to wager that most of the techniques above the original 154 were not developed by Ed Parker. Same goes for most of the extensions past the original 32 orange belt extensions. They were made up by a few of his senior students, and may have had his stamp of approval, but they weren't developed by the man.

I wonder Mike, are you willing to lose some money with that wager? I'd also bet you weren't around when they (the extensions) were being created.

DarK LorD

 

[kenpoworks]

Hey MisterMike,
are you sure about this, I was originally shown form 7 from a European Senior who"dummied" for Mr. Parker while he was developing the Form, he even gave me a photo copy of his original notes that he made during this time!

The Exstensions, well the last Senior(US), I aked about this said that (this is not verbatum)"they where only bona fide half way through Purple (1st degree BB)".

All this is of course "hearsay", it could be the "truth", but where's the "proof",
what we need is some one who was actually around at the time to post and clarify things a little, wadda ya reckon!

Richard

 

[Seabrook]

Hey Drifter,

Long Form 7 is done with two sticks and was designed to utilize techniques right out of the system, although there are a few additional techniques that are new.

Long Form 8 is done with two knives, and also utilizes techniques out of the system. There is also a section of the form where the finger set is performed with the knives.


Hope that helps.


Jamie Seabrook
www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com

 

[Seabrook]

If you count the extensions to the techs, there are 250 total. I was taught the extension is a technique in and of itself and teach it that way as well. Squeezing the Peach is designed for a Bear Hug, Arms Pinned, the catalyst for this tech. is the opponent pulling back. When you have the ext., it can alone be a technique if the catalyst is your opponent is pushing you forward.


DarK LorD

I have always thought of the extensions as the same base techniques with just more added, but looking at them as techniques in and of themselves, makes more sense to me. Thanks Clyde.


Jamie Seabrook
www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com

 

[Seabrook]

Since we are on the topic of Lee Wedlake, in his book, Kenpo Karate 201, he states that Star Block Set, Kicking Set, Coordination Set, Finger Set, and Two Man Set are the key sets of the system, while Striking Set 1 & 2, Stance Set 1 & 2, Staff Set, Kicking Set 2, Coordination Set 2, Finger Set 2, Long Form 7, and Long Form 8 were approved by Ed Parker, yet he did not require everyone to learn and teach them.


I personally advocate all of the sets and forms. After all, they were all listed in Infinite Insights Volume 5.


Jamie Seabrook
www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com

 

[Seabrook]

I wonder Mike, are you willing to lose some money with that wager? I'd also bet you weren't around when they (the extensions) were being created.

DarK LorD

To be honest Clyde, I was told the same thing for many of the extensions. But then again, I don't have continuous access to Larry Tatum....darn, I hate living in Canada.


Jamie Seabrook
www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com

 

[jfarnsworth]

I personally advocate all of the sets and forms. After all, they were all listed in Infinite Insights Volume 5.

I agree! At least this way if everyone were doing the same set of requirements most of the bickering wouldn't be with us. Those who have dropped material the students advance a little faster. Maybe we wouldn't have the your this rank & I'm this rank but I know more, why am I lower than you kinda thing.

 

[Drifter]

Hey Drifter,

Long Form 7 is done with two sticks and was designed to utilize techniques right out of the system, although there are a few additional techniques that are new.

Long Form 8 is done with two knives, and also utilizes techniques out of the system. There is also a section of the form where the finger set is performed with the knives.


Hope that helps.


Jamie Seabrook
www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com

Thank you sir. I was aware of the fact that they were done with weapons, but didn't know that Finger Set was performed within Long 8. My instructor teaches up to Form 7 (although I would bet that he teaches the Black Belts Form 8, simply because he is a knife aficianado...) but I've never seen it. My question was more along the lines of the Isolations at the ends of the forms, if there are any in 7 and 8. Thank you again!

 

[kenpo3631]

I wonder Mike, are you willing to lose some money with that wager? I'd also bet you weren't around when they (the extensions) were being created.

DarK LorD

I don't know I heard that as well Clyde :idunno:

 

[kenpo3631]

Since we are on the topic of Lee Wedlake, in his book, Kenpo Karate 201, he states that Star Block Set, Kicking Set, Coordination Set, Finger Set, and Two Man Set are the key sets of the system, while Striking Set 1 & 2, Stance Set 1 & 2, Staff Set, Kicking Set 2, Coordination Set 2, Finger Set 2, Long Form 7, and Long Form 8 were approved by Ed Parker, yet he did not require everyone to learn and teach them.


I personally advocate all of the sets and forms. After all, they were all listed in Infinite Insights Volume 5.


Jamie Seabrook
www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com

As a student of Mr. Wedlake's I can say that have been taught all of the sets, I.e. Star Block Set, Kicking Set, Coordination Set, Finger Set, and Two Man Set as well as Striking Set 1 & 2, Stance Set 1 & 2, Staff Set, Kicking Set 2, Coordination Set 2, Finger Set 2. Before training with Mr. Wedlake I was required to know the latter for testing purposes.

 

[Doc]

When/Where did he say that? I'm going to wager that most of the techniques above the original 154 were not developed by Ed Parker. Same goes for most of the extensions past the original 32 orange belt extensions. They were made up by a few of his senior students, and may have had his stamp of approval, but they weren't developed by the man.

Richard Planas is credited with the first 9/10 of the 154 techniques (Yellow).
Someone else created the staff set.
Form 6 was the last form by Parker. Note the special closing in the final salute. 7 and 8 are weapons forms that some schools do not even teach.

Well sir you are partially correct. Some of the extensions were done by students of Mr. Parker. The "original extensions" were off the original 32 chart, and were known as the "Green/Brown" material to promote to brown. (I think I have the "manual" still in my archives.) Of course they were not originally extensions but simply the technique. Then with commecialization, the endings were split off to create another level of material. Some of the splits left some of the techniques "dangling." "Clutching Feathers ended with the heel palm, and "Dance of Death" ended with the takedown, as examples. This is also why originally there was no cross cover outs in the initial techniques. You were really right at he beginning or the middle of a technique and the crossover cover would come when you learned the extension and finished the technique. When the charts were changed to 24, this gave a chart and a half of extensions. Jim Mitchell worked a great deal on the rest of the extensions. Another good reason, in my opinion, to ignore them. I have actually have all of the archived extensions on video, created over a period of time with Jim Mitchell performing them unnder Ed Parkers scruitiny. (Not on camera, but his distinct voice behind the camera), as well as the rest of the commercial curriculum as well. Mitchell is also performing all of the "two-sets" he created.

The "Staff Set" was a collaboration between Ed Parker and primarily Chuck Sullivan.

The first original 10 techniques assigned to Yellow Belt were created last by several people. Tom Kelly was the primary influence with assistance from Richard Planas, and others, as well as Mr. Parker himself. It is important to note, no one ever created anything and injected it into the system without oversight, adjustments and approval of Ed Parker.

Forms 7 & 8 were indeed created by Mr. Parker. Originally all of the "formal" forms stopped at "Form 6." With these forms were certain "sets" Parker was developing. This included the "Club Set" and the "Knife Set." Mr. Parker while working on the club set(s) became frustrated because students were in a hurry to utilize them in competition, (the reason the weapons forms were created in the first place), so he stopped what he was working on, and simply took established techniques and modified them for a two-handed club form. This became "Form 7." This was unfortunate because the sets he was working on were unique and displayed single club in "open" and "closed" positions, and opposite open/closed in each hand in doubles applications. The "Knife Set" was simply changed to "Form 8."

 

[TSUNAMI KENPO]

Ok.... Ask a Question and I will try and answer it.....

Who is first........
:asian:

When we talk about 30 tech per rank or 24 tech per rank and 16 tech per rank, are we talking about What SGM Parker was teaching at different times in his life or are the Tracys and others creating new kenpo techniques for their system?.

Tsunami kenpo

 

[Doc]

When we talk about 30 tech per rank or 24 tech per rank and 16 tech per rank, are we talking about What SGM Parker was teaching at different times in his life or are the Tracys and others creating new kenpo techniques for their system?.

Tsunami kenpo

Both.

 

[Doc]

I agree! At least this way if everyone were doing the same set of requirements most of the bickering wouldn't be with us. Those who have dropped material the students advance a little faster. Maybe we wouldn't have the your this rank & I'm this rank but I know more, why am I lower than you kinda thing.

You kidding right Jeff? You know they will find something to argue about.

 

[47MartialMan]

Is Richard Huk Planas and good instructor?