Pushing back the green movement...

Discussion in 'The Study' started by billc, Nov 18, 2011.

  1. billc

    billc Grandmaster

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    Here is an article on one activist trying to put some sense into the discussion of environmental issues...

    http://pjmedia.com/blog/a-new-hope-for-beating-back-the-regressive-green-movement/


     
  2. granfire

    granfire Sr. Grandmaster

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    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica] From http://www.halcyon.com/arborhts/chiefsea.html :

    Version 1 (below) appeared in the Seattle Sunday Star on Oct. 29, 1887, in a column by Dr. Henry A. Smith.

    [h=3]"CHIEF SEATTLE'S 1854 ORATION" - ver . 1[/h] AUTHENTIC TEXT OF CHIEF SEATTLE'S TREATY ORATION 1854 [​IMG] Yonder sky that has wept tears of compassion upon my people for centuries untold, and which to us appears changeless and eternal, may change. Today is fair. Tomorrow it may be overcast with clouds. My words are like the stars that never change. Whatever Seattle says, the great chief at Washington can rely upon with as much certainty as he can upon the return of the sun or the seasons. The white chief says that Big Chief at Washington sends us greetings of friendship and goodwill. This is kind of him for we know he has little need of our friendship in return. His people are many. They are like the grass that covers vast prairies. My people are few. They resemble the scattering trees of a storm-swept plain. The great, and I presume -- good, White Chief sends us word that he wishes to buy our land but is willing to allow us enough to live comfortably. This indeed appears just, even generous, for the Red Man no longer has rights that he need respect, and the offer may be wise, also, as we are no longer in need of an extensive country.
    [​IMG] There was a time when our people covered the land as the waves of a wind-ruffled sea cover its shell-paved floor, but that time long since passed away with the greatness of tribes that are now but a mournful memory. I will not dwell on, nor mourn over, our untimely decay, nor reproach my paleface brothers with hastening it, as we too may have been somewhat to blame.
    [​IMG] Youth is impulsive. When our young men grow angry at some real or imaginary wrong, and disfigure their faces with black paint, it denotes that their hearts are black, and that they are often cruel and relentless, and our old men and old women are unable to restrain them. Thus it has ever been. Thus it was when the white man began to push our forefathers ever westward. But let us hope that the hostilities between us may never return. We would have everything to lose and nothing to gain. Revenge by young men is considered gain, even at the cost of their own lives, but old men who stay at home in times of war, and mothers who have sons to lose, know better.
    [​IMG]Our good father in Washington--for I presume he is now our father as well as yours, since King George has moved his boundaries further north--our great and good father, I say, sends us word that if we do as he desires he will protect us. His brave warriors will be to us a bristling wall of strength, and his wonderful ships of war will fill our harbors, so that our ancient enemies far to the northward -- the Haidas and Tsimshians -- will cease to frighten our women, children, and old men. Then in reality he will be our father and we his children. But can that ever be? Your God is not our God! Your God loves your people and hates mine! He folds his strong protecting arms lovingly about the paleface and leads him by the hand as a father leads an infant son. But, He has forsaken His Red children, if they really are His. Our God, the Great Spirit, seems also to have forsaken us. Your God makes your people wax stronger every day. Soon they will fill all the land. Our people are ebbing away like a rapidly receding tide that will never return. The white man's God cannot love our people or He would protect them. They seem to be orphans who can look nowhere for help. How then can we be brothers? How can your God become our God and renew our prosperity and awaken in us dreams of returning greatness? If we have a common Heavenly Father He must be partial, for He came to His paleface children. We never saw Him. He gave you laws but had no word for His red children whose teeming multitudes once filled this vast continent as stars fill the firmament. No; we are two distinct races with separate origins and separate destinies. There is little in common between us.
    [​IMG] To us the ashes of our ancestors are sacred and their resting place is hallowed ground. You wander far from the graves of your ancestors and seemingly without regret. Your religion was written upon tablets of stone by the iron finger of your God so that you could not forget. The Red Man could never comprehend or remember it. Our religion is the traditions of our ancestors -- the dreams of our old men, given them in solemn hours of the night by the Great Spirit; and the visions of our sachems, and is written in the hearts of our people.
    [​IMG] Your dead cease to love you and the land of their nativity as soon as they pass the portals of the tomb and wander away beyond the stars. They are soon forgotten and never return. Our dead never forget this beautiful world that gave them being. They still love its verdant valleys, its murmuring rivers, its magnificent mountains, sequestered vales and verdant lined lakes and bays, and ever yearn in tender fond affection over the lonely hearted living, and often return from the happy hunting ground to visit, guide, console, and comfort them.
    [​IMG] Day and night cannot dwell together. The Red Man has ever fled the approach of the White Man, as the morning mist flees before the morning sun. However, your proposition seems fair and I think that my people will accept it and will retire to the reservation you offer them. Then we will dwell apart in peace, for the words of the Great White Chief seem to be the words of nature speaking to my people out of dense darkness.
    [​IMG] It matters little where we pass the remnant of our days. They will not be many. The Indian's night promises to be dark. Not a single star of hope hovers above his horizon. Sad-voiced winds moan in the distance. Grim fate seems to be on the Red Man's trail, and wherever he will hear the approaching footsteps of his fell destroyer and prepare stolidly to meet his doom, as does the wounded doe that hears the approaching footsteps of the hunter.
    [​IMG] A few more moons, a few more winters, and not one of the descendants of the mighty hosts that once moved over this broad land or lived in happy homes, protected by the Great Spirit, will remain to mourn over the graves of a people once more powerful and hopeful than yours. But why should I mourn at the untimely fate of my people? Tribe follows tribe, and nation follows nation, like the waves of the sea. It is the order of nature, and regret is useless. Your time of decay may be distant, but it will surely come, for even the White Man whose God walked and talked with him as friend to friend, cannot be exempt from the common destiny. We may be brothers after all. We will see.
    [​IMG] We will ponder your proposition and when we decide we will let you know. But should we accept it, I here and now make this condition that we will not be denied the privilege without molestation of visiting at any time the tombs of our ancestors, friends, and children. Every part of this soil is sacred in the estimation of my people. Every hillside, every valley, every plain and grove, has been hallowed by some sad or happy event in days long vanished. Even the rocks, which seem to be dumb and dead as the swelter in the sun along the silent shore, thrill with memories of stirring events connected with the lives of my people, and the very dust upon which you now stand responds more lovingly to their footsteps than yours, because it is rich with the blood of our ancestors, and our bare feet are conscious of the sympathetic touch. Our departed braves, fond mothers, glad, happy hearted maidens, and even the little children who lived here and rejoiced here for a brief season, will love these somber solitudes and at eventide they greet shadowy returning spirits. And when the last Red Man shall have perished, and the memory of my tribe shall have become a myth among the White Men, these shores will swarm with the invisible dead of my tribe, and when your children's children think themselves alone in the field, the store, the shop, upon the highway, or in the silence of the pathless woods, they will not be alone. In all the earth there is no place dedicated to solitude. At night when the streets of your cities and villages are silent and you think them deserted, they will throng with the returning hosts that once filled them and still love this beautiful land. The White Man will never be alone.
    [​IMG] Let him be just and deal kindly with my people, for the dead are not powerless. Dead, did I say? There is no death, only a change of worlds.

    [/FONT]
     
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  3. billc

    billc Grandmaster

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    Hmmm...on that speech...

    http://www.thefarm.org/lifestyle/albertbates/akbseattle.html
     
  4. billc

    billc Grandmaster

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    And some more on the speech:

     
  5. billc

    billc Grandmaster

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    More from the article I posted:

     
  6. billc

    billc Grandmaster

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    And here is some sense...

     
  7. elder999

    elder999 El Oso de Dios!

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    Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth and over all the creatures that move along the ground." Genesis 1:26.

    The land is mine and you are but aliens and my tenants. Throughout the country that you hold as a possession, you must provide for the redemption of the land. Lev. 25:23-24.

    As for you, my flock... Is it not enough for you to feed on good pasture? Must you also trample the rest of your pasture with your feet? Is it not enough for you to drink clear water? Must you also muddy the rest with your feet? Ezekiel 34:17-18.

    The earth dries up and withers, the world languished and withers, the exalted of the earth languish. The earth lies under its inhabitants; for they have transgressed the laws, violated the statutes, and broken the everlasting covenant. Therefore a curse consumes the earth; its people must bear their guilt. Isaiah 24:4-6.

    I brought you into a fertile land to eat its fruit and rich produce. But you came and defiled my land and you made my inheritance detestable. Jer. 2:7.

    And He called him and said to him, "What is this I hear about you? Give an account of your stewardship, for you can no longer be steward. He who is faithful in a very little thing is faithful also in much; and he who is unrighteous in a very little thing is unrighteous in much. You cannot serve both God and mammon. Luke 16:2,10,13.

    The nations were angry and your wrath has come. The time has come for rewarding your servants the prophets and your saints and those who reverence your name, both small and great - and for destroying those who destroy the earth. Revelation 11:18.

    And my personal favorite, the inarguable:

    You shall not pollute the land in which you live... you shall not defile the land in which you live, in which I also dwell.
    Numbers 35:33-34
     
  8. billc

    billc Grandmaster

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    What do they say about the devil quoting scripture?
     
  9. billc

    billc Grandmaster

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    And also from the article:

    ss.
     
  10. elder999

    elder999 El Oso de Dios!

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    It wasn't "they." 'T'was the Bard:

    The proverb is referring, of course, to Genesis 3, where "the serpent" quotes scripture, and again, in Matthew 4, "Shaitan," quotes scripture tempting Jesus. In both instances, some valuable context is left out-my dad always used to say Text without context is pretext.

    In this case, there is no pretext, and no further context is necessary: these are all quotes where the Creator is speaking directly through his prophets on man's treatment of the earth, the land, our home-which, you know, we're supposed to keep clean, not defecate on the kitchen floor and smear it on the walls like some kind of infant in their crib. Trust me on this, billi-the context would do nothing to further your argument,and only further mine: the Bible says we're supposed to take care of the earth, and not pollute it. It says that the earth is the Lord's, and we are its stewards, and should take care of it.
     
  11. billc

    billc Grandmaster

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    Of course we do take care of it and as we make more technological progress we are able to keep the environment cleaner and more useful. It is silly to think that progress means making the environment less clean. As we become more experienced handling different types of energy we extract in cleaner and safer ways and get more out of it because of this. Be fruitful and multiply is something else we are commanded to do, and that takes energy. All of the quotes you list say take care of the environment, they don't say don't use it at all, live like the lowest of animals and wallow in natural filth because you aren't allowed to advance beyond mud huts.
     
  12. elder999

    elder999 El Oso de Dios!

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    Oh, and on planet Cihak, this is the stated goal of the environmental movement, then? The reason that we have windmills producing electricity, and electric and hybrid vehicles, and solar power, and all of these environmental initiatives that you keep posting against is because they further some "green movement" agenda that would have us all "living like the lowest of animals and wallowing in natural filth" and "not allowing us to advance beyond mud huts," HOW? exactly? :lfao:

    Of course we do. :rolleyes:

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

     
  13. JohnEdward

    JohnEdward 2nd Black Belt

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    [​IMG]

    Elder999 you missed this guy.
     
  14. elder999

    elder999 El Oso de Dios!

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    Pretty sure that guy was Italian-an actor, playing a character for a public service spot.

    Everything I posted was real-actual examples of the fine job of stewardship mankind has over the earth, and the excellent care of the environment that has come from technological process.

    But I do miss those public service spots-they sure beat the constant drumbeats for "clean coal."
     
  15. JohnEdward

    JohnEdward 2nd Black Belt

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    I thought the Green Movement was about being Green....and I am not talking kermit the frog. The green am talking about is making $$$$$$$$$ that is about competing against established industries. The green movement is so we can buy more products from China, like solar panels - which is a fading out technology being replaced by new technology. Is having hybrid cars that run on electricity (completely or with fossil fuel) that is produced by coal (mostly) or nuclear power. Y'all, know stuff like that, it's about rerouting our dollar away from traditional industries, to new ones.
     
  16. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

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    Iron Eyes Cody aka Espera Oscar de Corti
     
  17. JohnEdward

    JohnEdward 2nd Black Belt

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    It is unfortunate that you haven't pointed how much industry has changed, and how much improvement there is. Or how many companies large and small are becoming and increasing their involvement in green awareness and being environmental progressives. It is profitable for them to do so. I point out how successful recycling programs are, and post-consumer recycled products are being used in or as new packaging. How landfills are being managed that benefit the environment and the community. How many states and cities are implementing green and environmental programs for their states and cities. I don't know if you have noticed that or not, the country isn't covered in sludge, knee high in garbage, have soot filled skies. Is it a perfect world? No. But the country it ain't as bleak and sliding down to an apocalyptic environmental disaster as you paint it.

    Many if not all of the pictures you posted are out dated and are of past events, besides being used for propaganda. And from your post, I would think you might be a Wall Street protester, or supporter as this is one of their concerns because of your posts.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2011
  18. Big Don

    Big Don Sr. Grandmaster

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    The adage goes
    NOT "Legislate happy-touchy-feely laws and regulations that hurt business and by extension those who work for them.
    So called "Green" technology has not progressed to that point, yet.
     
  19. billc

    billc Grandmaster

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    Yes, the green movement is about making billionaires out of politicians. Look at all the "green" scandals coming out of this white house.
     
  20. billc

    billc Grandmaster

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    Hmmm...I do believe that we clean up our messes, and have been cleaning them up since they have been discovered as problems. For each mess you show, you will see people wading in and cleaning them up, and coming up with new ways to clean them up more safely and quickly than before. The gulf spill would not have been as bad or lasted as long if the environmentalists hadn't pushed drilling so far out into the gulf where spills are harder to deal with. New technology to deal with spills like the leak in the gulf are being worked on by the free market capitalist system. There is money to be made in cleaning up messes and coming up with WORKABLE energy technologies. As people become more advanced and have more wealth, they like to live in clean places. The poorer countries are the countries with the worst environments. China is currently getting rich, they too will decide that pollution needs to be dealt with, and then they will clean up their country as well.
     

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