Purpose of stretching

[Earl Weiss]

In the goals for 2015 thread the tpic of stretching came up and there were comments like:

"There is no time to stretch before needing to use TKD in a fight, time needed for stretching etc. "

I felt the need for more discussion.

IMO strtetching can be used for a warm up but it is not a warm up and you should warm up before stretching.

Stretching is like most other exercises be it strength or cardio. Improvements are made incrementaly. These improvements will aid in improved performance by increasing the range of motion and not requiring the body to "fight itself" when trying to move through the range.

Heavy duty and prolonged stretching SHOULD NOT be done before a TKD kicking type workout. Like other exercise, intensity will fatigue the muscles. You do not want to call upon fatigued muscles to perform optimaly. The fatigue leads to instability which can lead to injury.

A 60 -90 minute TKD class does not really allow for a good stretching routine. Conventional wisdom is to hold a stetch for 30 seconds and do 3 sets of each stretch to achieve reasoneable results. 6 stretches x 2 legs x 3 sets x 30 seconds is minimum of 18 minutes for stretching - more like 24 minutes with changover time, and this would be done at the end of class.

 

[Buka]

I think stretching should be thought of as "flexibility training". I think an increased range in your own personal flexibility (in both the long and short term) increases your odds of victory, health and resistance to injury while training or fighting or going about your daily life.

 

[tkdwarrior]

It also depends on your genetics. Some people are just naturally flexible and can maintain flexibility gained from training for a long time.

I agree it could be part of a warm up but it is best done towards the end of a work out.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I think stretching can and should be part of your warm up, but it should be light stretching. I think we agree on that in every way other than minor semantic differences. I agree that heavy stretching is time consuming, should be done after a good workout, and is too time consuming to be a regular part of the class.
In an ideal world, class time would be used for error correction, fine tuning and new material and students would do their stretching, conditioning and practice outside the dojang.

 

[Shai Hulud]

Stretching, apart from the obvious benefits when engaged in an art that involves extensive use of the lower extremities, helps prevent injuries and conditions your body along with mobility exercises.

That being said, I'm not a big proponent of stretching before a training/workout session. I'd much prefer to do it towards the end of a session, after conditioning, strength training and sport-specific training. I prefer to do calisthenic warm-ups and mobility exercises before jumping into a training session.

 

[Transk53]

I remember years ago when I had my first TKD class, the static stretching was pretty much the first order of the class. Wondering what has changed the thought process towards stretching in that manner. Even at a humble boxercise class, or the like, it is the same. stretching at the end of the class. The warm up just a few looseners.

 

[tkdwarrior]

Flexibility in itself is a long term target. So dedicated effort must be exerted specifically for that. The sequencing has changed because static stretching does not excite your central nervous system enough in preparation for the active nature of the workout, specifically martial arts.

 

[Transk53]

Flexibility in itself is a long term target. So dedicated effort must be exerted specifically for that. The sequencing has changed because static stretching does not excite your central nervous system enough in preparation for the active nature of the workout, specifically martial arts.

Anybody in particular who realised and advocated change. Could imagine someone like Bill Wallace pushed it. Probably looking at it too deeply, just seems quite a change of philosophy.

 

[tkdwarrior]

Studies have shown that it is best to do it the way it is done now.

Bill Wallace really pushed the envelop here. He really worked his technique and his genetics helped a lot in this.

 

[RTKDCMB]

I"There is no time to stretch before needing to use TKD in a fight, time needed for stretching etc. "

The more you stretch the better you can maintain your flexibility and the less likely it is that you will injure yourself kicking when you haven't warmed up or stretched. Besides, kicking someone in the groin or the knee doesn't require much flexibility.

 

[Earl Weiss]

......Wondering what has changed the thought process towards stretching in that manner. .

People got smarter. We did a lot of stupid stuff years ago. Some stretches that were not the best for us Like "Hurdler's Stretch" kicking overly heavy bags. If I knew then what I know now i'd have taken better care of myself

 

[Buka]

Anybody in particular who realised and advocated change. Could imagine someone like Bill Wallace pushed it. Probably looking at it too deeply, just seems quite a change of philosophy.

Part of Bill Wallace's success comes from his education. He has a Bachelors degree in Physical Education and a Masters Degree in Kinesiology. Both from the early seventies, while he was training and competing. He always said he applied everything he was learning, as he learned, towards his Martial training and fighting.

Man, he knew more about stretching than anyone I've met. Kicked like a banshee, too.

 

[Transk53]

Part of Bill Wallace's success comes from his education. He has a Bachelors degree in Physical Education and a Masters Degree in Kinesiology. Both from the early seventies, while he was training and competing. He always said he applied everything he was learning, as he learned, towards his Martial training and fighting.

Man, he knew more about stretching than anyone I've met. Kicked like a banshee, too.

Must be quite charismatic as a person, well seems that way. Did I post a lucky guess, did not know the above. Well good on him, it has obviously worked for him. No doubt he is fitter than that's for sure.

 

[Transk53]

People got smarter. We did a lot of stupid stuff years ago. Some stretches that were not the best for us Like "Hurdler's Stretch" kicking overly heavy bags. If I knew then what I know now i'd have taken better care of myself

I thought that is the one with the trailing leg as I remenber. Do you mean like the one at 01:19?

 

[Buka]

Must be quite charismatic as a person, well seems that way. Did I post a lucky guess, did not know the above. Well good on him, it has obviously worked for him. No doubt he is fitter than that's for sure.

He wouldn't be described as charismatic.

 

[RTKDCMB]

I thought that is the one with the trailing leg as I remenber. Do you mean like the one at 01:19?

It's the one at 0:59, we stopped doing that a long time ago because the angle of the back leg is not good for the knees.

 

[Transk53]

It's the one at 0:59, we stopped doing that a long time ago because the angle of the back leg is not good for the knees.

Got ya. I remember that one briefly.

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

IMO strtetching can be used for a warm up but it is not a warm up and you should warm up before stretching.....

Heavy duty and prolonged stretching SHOULD NOT be done before a TKD kicking type workout.

One of my pet peeves is instructors/masters yelling at students to stretch deeper or kick higher at the beginning of class. Even worse to me are instructors who go behind students while they stretch at the beginning of class and push the students farther.

If I have to lead warmups, I always say something like "Go as high as you are comfortable going. We're just warming up. Test your muscles and see how you feel". Then the Master comes and yells at the students to do deeper or higher and pushes them from behind .

One aspect of stretching and flexibility that Bill Wallace said was something like, "People think about flexibility as letting them kick higher. But more importantly, it lets you kick FARTHER, and in a bio-mechanically correct fashion."

The "bio-mechanically correct fashion" aspect is the part I think most people don't think about.

 

[TrueJim]

From what I've read, some of the most common "problematic" stretches are:

• The Hurdler's Stretch, which as mentioned above is bad for the rear knee. (I believe you can fix this though by putting the non-stretching leg in front of you, rather than behind you.)
• The Body Tuck, aka Yoga Plough (laying on your back, put your legs up above your head and then continue until your legs are behind you) - not surprisingly, for some people this places way too much stress on the neck and upper back
• Standing toe touches - for people with lower-back problems, this can place too much stress on the lower back (but I believe you can fix this by doing sitting toe-touches)
• Standing backward stretches - it's not as obvious to me as toe-touches that this will stress your back, but apparently for some people it does
• Standing upper-body twists - are okay if done slowly, but some people mistakenly hurl their upper body too hard into the twists

Out of curiosity...are there other common stretches that folks here think are problematic?

 

[Buka]

One of my pet peeves is instructors/masters yelling at students to stretch deeper or kick higher at the beginning of class. Even worse to me are instructors who go behind students while they stretch at the beginning of class and push the students farther.

For the everyday student, yes, I think so, too. For a certain segment of the higher ranks who are as crazed as you are....yup.

If I have to lead warmups, I always say something like "Go as high as you are comfortable going. We're just warming up. Test your muscles and see how you feel". Then the Master comes and yells at the students to do deeper or higher and pushes them from behind .
One aspect of stretching and flexibility that Bill Wallace said was something like, "People think about flexibility as letting them kick higher. But more importantly, it lets you kick FARTHER, and in a bio-mechanically correct fashion."

I agree, wholeheartedly.

The "bio-mechanically correct fashion" aspect is the part I think most people don't think about.

On the money, that.