Profile of a Killer

[elder999]

Norway-anti muslim white guy, no religious involvment at all

Uhh....

"This is a Norwegian person, born and grow up in Norway. He's 32 years old. He's not known by the police before so we have not arrested him before or anything like that," Acting Police Chief Roger Andresen said of Breivik.
"On his website, as you've probably seen, he describes himself as Christian and going to the right," he added

 

[Archangel M]

Theres a large difference between BEING of a religious denomination and ACTING (ahem Jihad ahem) based on religious beliefs or on what your religious leader is telling you to do. There does seem to be a media drive to paint Christian all over this guy with little evidence that his Religion was a factor in his behavior.

 

[Twin Fist]

exactly

there is ZERO evidence he was religious at all, or that his religion played a part in his actions

Theres a large difference between BEING of a religious denomination and ACTING (ahem Jihad ahem) based on religious beliefs or on what your religious leader is telling you to do. There does seem to be a media drive to paint Christian all over this guy with little evidence that his Religion was a factor in his behavior.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Norway-anti muslim white guy, no religious involvment at all

Ok City- anti government white guy, no religious motivation at all

disagree?

as to the rest? you may not like it, but all of them were done by muslims, sure, not all, not most, but SOME muslims cared enough to do these horrible crimes

disagree? Yes.

But this isn't any fun.

Starting with a conclusion : Muslims are violent
and a corollary : Muslims are responsible for most terrorist attacks and mass killings
It is easy to work backwards to prove.

You just massage the data until you get what you want.
You limit time frames, geographic regions, casualty counts.
You track religions and nationalities.
You ignore factors that damage your pre-determined conclusion.
Until you get what you want.

That is poor research, poor science.

In the -sample- that I posted, which I pulled off a wikipedia page, which was given as a sample, the majority of the attacks were done by those who list themselves as Muslim.

Were the -reasons- for the attacks however religious based, or political?
That requires a deeper examination of the data.

Stopping at the "7/10 were done by muslims, so muslims are bad" level of conclusion is poor science.
Simplistic.
Stupid.
But again, :slapfight::hb:
Naw. You keep ignoring inconvenient data, the -majority- of us will do the deeper digging.

 

[Twin Fist]

disagree? Yes.

But this isn't any fun.

Starting with a conclusion : Muslims are violent

change it to some and i would agree, I would not agree that all, or even most are.

and a corollary : Muslims are responsible for most terrorist attacks and mass killings

dont have to prove it, the facts bear it out, more attacks by radical muslims than any other group-type
YOUR post proved this

Were the -reasons- for the attacks however religious based, or political?

in the case of islam,t here is no difference since the religion COMMANDS the spread of the religion, by force, untill it rules the entire world, and it also states a type of government (shariah compliant religion controlled) are to be put in place


christianity doesnt do any of that

Stopping at the "7/10 were done by muslims, so muslims are bad" level of conclusion is poor science.
Simplistic.

no one is saying that Bob, I AM saying that radical islam is a threat, you agreed with that BTW

 

[Bob Hubbard]

John.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents,_2011
The majority, by which I mean more than 50%, of these have -2- common factors.
1- They are being done by people of the Islamic faith.
2- They are happening in nations where the heavy majority (>75%) are members of the Islamic faiths.

What does that tell you?

Remember, most of the people dying in violence in Africa are black, and most of those doing the killing there are black.
The -simplistic- answer would be that blacks are violent killer animals.

Keep that in mind when considering my question above.

Who is killing whom?
What are the reasons cited for the killings?
What are the social and economic conditions at play?
What international circumstances contribute?

Those are the questions those who would understand ask.

But, you can just call me an apologist, or whatever.

In 2001, Israel saw a large number of suicide bombers.
10 years later, few.
What changed?

1990 saw large amounts of violence in South America.
20 years later, Almost nothing showing up from there.
Why?

If the current trend is a high level of violence traced back to Islamic extremists, what will the level be in 10 years?
All reliable reports indicate a decline in extremist activities.
What led to the past increase, what's contributed to the decrease, and what can be done to continue the downward trend?

 

[Bob Hubbard]

change it to some and i would agree, I would not agree that all, or even most are.



dont have to prove it, the facts bear it out, more attacks by radical muslims than any other group-type
YOUR post proved this

My post proved the sample proves it. The sample is questionable as the source is editable and may be biased.

in the case of islam,t here is no difference since the religion COMMANDS the spread of the religion, by force, untill it rules the entire world, and it also states a type of government (shariah compliant religion controlled) are to be put in place

Which branch? Not all are equal.

christianity doesnt do any of that

Debatable. In the past, it did.
Some branches, still do.

no one is saying that Bob, I AM saying that radical islam is a threat, you agreed with that BTW

Over 90% of Muslims are not radicals. They aren't the problem.
Focus on the problems is all I've been saying.

 

[Twin Fist]

in the past, men had tails, now we dont

in this case, the past is irellevant to the situation we find ourselves in TODAY

nowhere in the bible does it say to kill the unbeliever and rule the world with christian based religious run governments.

the koran DOES

hey, if the sample is wrong, I didnt post it. Dont blame me.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

in the past, men had tails, now we dont

Not according to the Cobb County Georgia school board.

in this case, the past is irellevant to the situation we find ourselves in TODAY

Those who do not know the past are doomed to repeat it.

nowhere in the bible does it say to kill the unbeliever and rule the world with christian based religious run governments.

the koran DOES

Nope. Nowhere in the Christian Bible does it say anything about killing unbelievers, etc.

Except here:

Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

Death to Followers of Other Religions
Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

Kill Nonbelievers
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

Kill False Prophets
If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)

Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God
Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

Kill Followers of Other Religions.
1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)

Death for Blasphemy
One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD's name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother's name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD's will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, "Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD's name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD's name will surely die. (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)

Kill False Prophets
1) Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles, and the predicted signs or miracles take place. If the prophets then say, 'Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,' do not listen to them. The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul. Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone. Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him. The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt. Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT)

2) But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.' You may wonder, 'How will we know whether the prophecy is from the LORD or not?' If the prophet predicts something in the LORD's name and it does not happen, the LORD did not give the message. That prophet has spoken on his own and need not be feared. (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NLT)

Infidels and Gays Should Die
So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies. Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving. They are fully aware of God's death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. (Romans 1:24-32 NLT)

Kill People for Working on the Sabbath
The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)

I believe you are mistaken in your understanding of Christianity.

hey, if the sample is wrong, I didnt post it. Dont blame me.

Not blaming you. Explaining basic scientific research principles such as knowing your sample, and so forth.

 

[Archangel M]

We don't "follow" the Old Testament Bob. It's one of the founding books true, but Christians are supposed to adhere to the New Testament. I cannot EVER recall hearing those OT passages read in a Catholic Mass, let alone been taught that they should adhered to or been instructed to follow them by a Priest. There are entire Nations of other religions that do and are.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

We don't "follow" the Old Testament Bob. It's one of the founding books true, but Christians are supposed to adhere to the New Testament. I cannot EVER recall hearing those OT passages read in a Catholic Mass, let alone been taught that they should adhered to or been instructed to follow them by a Priest. There are entire Nations of other religions that do and are.

Then Arch, as TF said, you're just a "bad" Christian as it's in the book. If the OT doesn't apply, why is it still in the book? TF made a claim, I just countered it. The deeper dig is a tangent better explored in a thread I just dropped.

 

[Tez3]

One thing I've noticed that adds to at least my consturnation about the whole thing. Is I have no real idea about muslim culture. So I'm thniking this.
And the more learned of you can enlighten me if you wish.
They have basically 2 main cultures Suni and Sheite but within those are several sub factions as well (Taliban, Muslim Brotherhood, Al-Queda) . Add to that add in cultural things from their varried countries. Looks like a hard to understand mess to me. Hmm seems like the west has some things similar at least religeously (Catholic, Prod, Evangelical, Lutheran, Agnostic) and at least in the US Regional and such (Yankee, Rebel, Indian, you get the drift).
So it would seem that Some standard deffinitions would help.
Heck I got no answers just a whole bunch of questions.

Might be easiest untill it all gets figured out to STAY OFF EACHOTHERS LAWN.

, etc)))), etc.)etc

The Taliban, Al Queda aren't 'sub factions' of Islam, they are terrorist groups. They are to Islam what the IRA and the UVF are to Christianity. The sub division in Islam are Sufism, Sunni and Shi'a. Here's an information piece by the BBC on Islam.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/islam/

 

[Twin Fist]

and wahabbi, they are the REALLY dangerous ones

 

[granfire]

and wahabbi, they are the REALLY dangerous ones

and yet, they are not the ones blowing **** up....

They are still a religious group....not a terrorist one....

 

[billc]

Well, people are starting to read through the killers manifesto and the "conservative christian," monker is starting to become less so...

http://bigjournalism.com/edulis/201...letely-destroys-christian-conservative-label/

From the article:

But Breivik’s actual words completely contradict the “Conservative Christian” caricature. Below, you can see how, to save the environment, he wants the world to rid itself of oil consumption. You can see how he wants a one-child policy, government control of private industries, the breakup of Rupert Murdoch’s media empire, the military support of Russia to prevent a possible U.S. invasion of Europe, and the removal of all U.S. military bases from European soil. Yes, the tea party platform through and through, folks!First of all, many thanks to the anonymous blogger Sooper Mexican, who has unearthed this information from the giant screed and organized it in an easily understandable, concise manner. For those who would quibble that this is an untrustworthy source, his post consists of direct quotes from the manifesto with commentary– I repeat, direct quotes. I repeat them here with the blogger’s emphases.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Hmmm...one child policy...government control of industries...supports russia...hmmm...that doesn't exactly scream "right winger" to me. It does seem to lean toward european socialist tendencies...

The actual passages from the manifesto are in the article...and he specifically states, government control of industries...what does that sound like...
---------------------------------------------------------

And the article closes with this:

There we have it. He clearly frames his opposition to “Marxism” in terms of “cultural Marxism”– that is, the equal validity of all ethnic and cultural groups’ values and practices– certainly not economic Marxism, which he eagerly espouses. In the same way, his use of “Christian” is in a purely cultural, not a religious sense. One’s relationship to Jesus, the Christ, is not a factor in his version of Christianity.
And here we are, mindlessly linked to this man’s violence, when A) it’s clear that his actions are the work of an outlier to any mainstream political ideology, thus only bottom-feeding hopeless partisans would dare politicize them, and B) his ideology is nothing close to the conservative, capitalist, Christian beliefs common to the tea party and most right-wing bloggers. Of course, we are dealing with a patently corrupt media, so we must push twice as hard as normal to get this information out and stamp out the MSM’s false narrative about Oslo. Download the PDF of Breivik’s manifesto here, find the quotes yourself (and anything else you can), and spread them through Twitter, Facebook, Google+, flyers on library bulletin boards– whatever it takes to let your community know the truth about this sick politicization of murder.

 

[MaxiMe]

The Taliban, Al Queda aren't 'sub factions' of Islam, they are terrorist groups. They are to Islam what the IRA and the UVF are to Christianity. The sub division in Islam are Sufism, Sunni and Shi'a. Here's an information piece by the BBC on Islam.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/islam/

I'm just not eloquent.

But Catholic, Prodistant falls under Christianity, So aren't they both factions of the main title? and wouldn't the IRA or UVF be factions of the factions? Therefore sub factions on some level?

 

[RandomPhantom700]

I'm just not eloquent.

But Catholic, Prodistant falls under Christianity, So aren't they both factions of the main title? and wouldn't the IRA or UVF be factions of the factions? Therefore sub factions on some level?

Depends on your perspective. To me, an atheist, yeah, they're both subsects of the same belief structure. To a casual member of either, they have important differences. To a devout member of either, they're as fundamentally opposed as night and day.

 

[elder999]

lets see:

Siks: 1
anti muslim white guy: 1
Islamic terrorists: 12-13
Anti government white guy: 1

yeah, tell me what groups are no threat again?

.
[yt]pVrGIEH7JbE[/yt]

 

[elder999]

Here is a video clip of Bill O'reilly taking on the "profile of a killer," offered by the media, he does it quite well. He also addresses the "radical muslim terrorist vs. christian terrorist" aspect of the coverage.

ANd here ya go. Same old song, but more intelligible, with a cool video to boot:

[yt]Ym9msqE6oYM[/yt]

 

[RandomPhantom700]

Seriously, is there a "wtf?" button to click on people's posts?