Professor???? Michael Bates

[DoctorB]

OK Folks,

I need some help here... I just read an ad in the Decomber 2002 issue of Inside Kung Fu, that "Professor Michael Bates" was going to be a presenter at a Filipino Martial Arts Seminar, in Philadelphia, Pa. on November 16, along with GM Max Pallen, Tuhon Chris Sayoc and Tuhon Mark Wiley. My question is when did Michael Bates become a "professor" of Presas Modern Arnis?

I do recall that he was using the title Professor, Jr. or was it Jr. Professor, because the title "master" did note mesh well with his last name, but how and when did he beome a "professor"? Who awarded that distinction for the art of "Presas Modern Arnis"?

Was I the only member of this forum to see this ad on page 120 of the above mentioned issue of IKF?

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.

 

[dearnis.com]

Haven't seen the ad (I try to avoid the martial arts media if I can... bad for my stress levels...), but Professor frequently used "Junior Professor as a nickname for Michael Bates. The use of the title professor goes back to around February of this year; whether anyone awarded it, and whether he claims it in Modern Arnis, I couldn't say.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Dig around here a bit...there was some discussion several months back, in part regarding his use of the title 'professor'.

 

[Guro Harold]

Te original thread was: http://www.martialtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1048

 

[Cebu West]

Michael Bates is no Professor. He just conviently forgot to include the junior. Typical
I've been there ,seen that, and that's why I'm with Datu Hartman.

 

[DoctorB]

Originally posted by Palusut

Te original thread was: http://www.martialtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1048

Thanks for the url, I am going to do some reading.

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.

 

[DoctorB]

Originally posted by Cebu West

Michael Bates is no Professor. He just conviently forgot to include the junior. Typical
I've been there ,seen that, and that's why I'm with Datu Hartman.

Ok, I got through the first page of the thread and two things stood out for me - (1) Michael Bates was promoted to 4th
degree by Professor Presas and (2) the use of the term "master" would have been very, very laughable for everyone except Michael (and a number of people seemed ready to enjoy the joke on several levels at once).

So does this title of "professor" mean that Michael Bates, is now
senior to Datu Hartman.....? {Just kidding, Cebu West & Tim}

This is just one example of why I deem the 2003 Symposium to be a worthwhile effort to promote... Jeff Delaney, a 5th degree has been calling himself a grand master and the "successor" to the late GM Presas; now, Michael Bates, a 4th degree is calling himself a "professor" 'of Presas Modern Arnis'....

Personally, I would love to see them both attend the Symposium and take it to the floor so that I can compare what they have to offer against what Datu Hartman, Guro McConnell, Guro Ng, Guro Muhammad, Senior Master Anderson, PG D. Presas, PG R. Presas, Jr. have to offer those of us who are interested in learning from the best and most knowledgable instructors of the art.

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.

 

[Guro Harold]

There could be another twist to this discussion. This could be a gross observation, but GM Pallen uses the term "Professor" it seems for master class instructors on his website.

But again I am drawing this general assessment based on his website for the annoucements for this event and some other events.

Go to http://pallensmartialarts.org/events/index.html and look through the whole page, several people are addressed as "Professor".

I feel that in Modern Arnis, "Professor", was a term of respect and endearment reserved for GM Presas only.

 

[bloodwood]

Michael Bates only Modern Arnis teacher was Professor Presas and he always made it known how close he was to the Professor. Now that the real Professor is gone and he seems to be associated with Max Pallen still doesn't give him the right to use the title professor. This is just plain blatant disrespect to the man who did so much for him. Maybe he believes this new title will revive his fading career in the martial arts. You can only burn so many bridges and annoy only so many people before you are left out in the cold. And if your going to burn a bridge you shouldn't be standing on it at the time. :flame:

 

[DoctorB]

Originally posted by bloodwood

Michael Bates only Modern Arnis teacher was Professor Presas and he always made it known how close he was to the Professor. Now that the real Professor is gone and he seems to be associated with Max Pallen still doesn't give him the right to use the title professor. This is just plain blatant disrespect to the man who did so much for him. Maybe he believes this new title will revive his fading career in the martial arts. You can only burn so many bridges and annoy only so many people before you are left out in the cold. And if your going to burn a bridge you shouldn't be standing on it at the time. :flame:

Hello Bloodwood,

If I am reading your post correct... it was Michael Bates who alwyas made it known that he (Bates) was close to the late Professor Presas...

That being the case and since he has allied himself with professor Max Pallen, I would agree that his usage of "Professor" is both inappropriate and a callous disregard toward the man that Bates claimed to be so close to while he was alive.

Modern Arnis players should be careful to recognize that the leaders of other martial arts systems can and do use the title
"Professor". It is neither disrespectful nor inappropriate for them to do so, HOWEVER, the same does not apply to those of us who studied Modern Arnis under the late GM, Professor Remy Presas! Michael Bates, no matter how close he claimed to have been to Professor Presas, is no exception to this statement, especially when his use of "professor" is being associated with the phrase 'Presas Modern Arnis'.

If he had chosen to use the term "punong" or "guro", there might have been some snickering and chuckling, but not this sense of distain and disrespect.

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.

 

[Guro Harold]

Is it a case where others are writing the promotional information and Mr. Bates could not or is not altering it, or is it the case that he is consciously using the title?

 

[bloodwood]

If someone were writing a promo for me and put me out there as Professor Bloodwood, I'd be all over them like a cheep suit. And there IS such a thing as proofreading. No Excuse, No Excuse, No Excuse. When people become legends in their own minds, they tend to justify whatever they are doing and by any means possible. Without honor there is no respect. He has neither./


:flushed:

 

[DoctorB]

Originally posted by Palusut

Is it a case where others are writing the promotional information and Mr. Bates could not or is not altering it, or is it the case that he is consciously using the title?

I can not definately tell you that Bates wrote the promo ad and sumitted it to IKF, personally, however, since he is the seminar host, I would think that he would have had some editorial input before the ad went out to the magazine. What's your guess?

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.

 

[Guro Harold]

Hi DoctorB,

I cannot tell how Mr. Bates is personally using the title. There is no title associated with the announcement in events page for Black Belt Magazine (http://w3.blackbeltmag.com/events/).

This public advertisement has contact information for him.

PHILADELPHIA, PA—Triple Impact Meeting of the Filipino Masters! 1 day seminar with Grandmaster Jeff Delaney of Modern Arnis; Tuhon Chris Sayoc of Sayoc Kali; and Professor Max Pallen, Grandmaster, Senkotiros Escrima, on November 16, 2002. Join us for the best of Filipino Martial Arts! For info. contact Michael T. Bates at 803 N. Providence Rd.; Media, PA 19063 or call 610-565-3600. e-mail [email protected] or visit www.professorpresas.com

 

[dearnis.com]

safe to say that is an old announcement; Jeff has been off the list of instructors for the camop since he and Michael parted ways in the spring.
Chad

 

[Guro Harold]

Oh, by the way, Ms. McManus is definitely using the title "Professor". Please refer to the most recent events page for www.modernarnis.com.

Her reasons are all her own, but she writes her own press so it is a conscious decision for her.

 

[bloodwood]

Your info on Lisa is correct however your link to IMAF is incorrect. That link is for MARPPIO. Here is IMAF news page link reffering to your statement.

http://www.professorpresas.com/news.htm

Bloodwood

 

[Guro Harold]

Thanks Bloodwood, old links die hard.

 

[dearnis.com]

Maybe we could all just agree to retire the title; you know, no one uses it in relation to Modern Arnis anymore

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by dearnis.com

Maybe we could all just agree to retire the title; you know, no one uses it in relation to Modern Arnis anymore

As far as I'm concerned, that occurred when the Professor passed away.