Poomsae, Tuls, Kata or Forms

[terryl965]

We all do them and we all pretty much agree that they are a big part of our training but I have this new question for you. If they mean so much then why do we not put alot into them as far as seminars around the countrys? I mean every once in a while a GM will come and do a Saturday or Sunday once a year but nothing like a current curcuit from some of the best in TKD. I would love to host and participate4-6 times a year a quality poomsae seminar, you know the type that just makes you hurt for days at a time from standing in a stance for hours to make sure we remember how it goes. So much has changed over the years, look at this year USAT testing where people was learning ,ovement to get ranks, now I did hear the poomsae seminars was a great one but here is the problem when will another come our way a year again? OK I am off my soapbox and looking forward to some great seminars that I can make.

 

[HM2PAC]

I agree Terry, I think forms and stances get looked over quite a bit.

 

[dancingalone]

Because such a seminar wouldn't be meaningful across style lines? For example, much of the focus in my Goju-ryu karate school is on kata applications or bunkai as it should be in a traditional karate school. Now, I could share some of the applications I teach with people who don't train with me, and they could perhaps glean some value from it, but it wouldn't be true Goju-ryu, where the students already have some background in the prerequisites needed before they can really execute or understand the lesson. In other words, I'd be wasting my time. I want to teach my art and pass it on in my own school to my own students, not just throw a few bits here and there and hope it sprouts like a Johnny Appleseed.

The same is probably true in taekwondo. If you don't do sine wave tuls, what utility is there for an ITF master to spend time sharing his art? Better perhaps for him to work within his own sphere of influence and spread his art that way rather than diffusing his efforts among too large of a population? Another example: As someone who earned a dan in old Texas style Jhoon Rhee TKD, what possibly use would I have for attending a KKW style poomsae seminar? Too much of my energy would be misspent on just trying to follow the pattern choreography rather than spending all my focus on receiving some real insights.

TKD has diverged sufficiently to where style is a real consideration. There's ATA, there's Olympic style, there's old school Korean karate, etc. At this point, I believe it's best to accept it and be the best you can be within your own curriculum.

 

[SJON]

OK, without stepping outside the TKD/TSD lineage, we've got the Chang Hon set, the Taegeuk+BB set, the Palgwe+BB set, the "Koreanised Okinawan" set (Pyong-Ahn, Chulgi, etc), the ATA set ...

I suspect that there are enough people doing each set in the US to warrant the kind of thing Terry is talking about, and outside the US enough people doing the first two sets.

Hey, I'm available ...

 

[SJON]

Hey, I'm available ...

I've just realised how that sounds ... steady, ladies!

 

[terryl965]

OK, without stepping outside the TKD/TSD lineage, we've got the Chang Hon set, the Taegeuk+BB set, the Palgwe+BB set, the "Koreanised Okinawan" set (Pyong-Ahn, Chulgi, etc), the ATA set ...

I suspect that there are enough people doing each set in the US to warrant the kind of thing Terry is talking about, and outside the US enough people doing the first two sets.

Hey, I'm available ...

Yes this is what I am talking about, we should have enough qualify people to bring this to he forefront and exppand our horizens.

 

[CDKJudoka]

I would pay to go to these seminars. I have always felt that if there waws no value in the katas, then they shouldn't be taught. And being that they are taught, they must be pretty important.

 

[IcemanSK]

Terry, I think you have hit on something important here. Many folks on here have already chimed in in agreement, also. In TKD circles, we like to talk about the importance of forms, but not "why" they might be important. Some folks talk about them as if the "real benefit" is the "spiritual significance" the forms have. Of course, I've never gotten a straight answer to the question, "what spiritual significance are you referring to about the forms?" from these folks. Others talk about the importance of having technically correct movements (that is, your low block is proper, back is straight, eyes forward, stance is correct) but yet possible SD applications aren't addressed.

If they are so important, why do we have one for each gup rank that students speed through to memorize only to make their instructor happy? I'd like to see more attention given to them on a lot of levels (technical, SD, fitness benfits just to name a few.)

 

[MSUTKD]

Many of us are giving poomsae seminars.

 

[terryl965]

Many of us are giving poomsae seminars.

Yes sir you are but the problem is you are in Michigan and I would love to have you come by and do one at my school new location. I truely enjoyed having you that one Christmas but that was only for anhour, You sir are a great ambassador for poomsae's in the art of TKD. How about coming down for a weekend and do it all three days? Talk to you later and as always take care Master Southwick.

 

[jim777]

Well, I don't know about standing in stances for hours but I would love to see more forms seminars. I'm a big fan of forms

 

[bluekey88]

I'm working on putting together a special 8 week (12 hours all totalled) seminar for my school based on Simon's work on the Taeguks. I'm waiting to hear back from my Sahbumnim about whether or not we'll go forward with it. I'm hoping this will grow into a regular class at our school.

Peace,
Erik

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

OK, without stepping outside the TKD/TSD lineage, we've got the Chang Hon set, the Taegeuk+BB set, the Palgwe+BB set, the "Koreanised Okinawan" set (Pyong-Ahn, Chulgi, etc), the ATA set ...

The ATA set would be Songham forms, a variant of which I believe is practiced by the ITA and called ho-am forms, though Granfire and Karatemom would know first hand regarding that one.

Regarding taekgeuks and palgwes, I don't recall that the BB forms changed, but I could be mistaken there.

Daniel

 

[IcemanSK]

Many of us are giving poomsae seminars.

Master Southwick, I know that there are many folks like yourself that do great seminars on poomsae. The issue, as I see it, is that in depth forms training has not been a focus of the culture of TKD in most places. Among us WTF/KKW folks, it has only started to become more of a focus in the last few years. Hopefully, the culture of TKD will value poomsae as an important part of the Art.