Penn & Teller Flag burning...

[Doc_Jude]

And just to clarify my stance, I agree that people should have free speech, and should have the freedom to burn the flag in protest if they wish.

However, I also have the freedom of speech and thought to not like it one bit.

The flag means different things to different people 'round here, obviously. I don't agree with everyone, but I defend their right to speak their mind. I still love my country, and respect and believe what the United States was founded on. Myself, I wouldn't burn the Flag except to dispose of it with the proper respect and ceremony, but if things get too much worse around here, I may hang mine upside down...

 

[Cruentus]

I don't disagree with anything you guys have said here.

I just think that there are better ways to get a point across rather then to burn flags and vehemently protest. Writing articles, enlisting and serving your community or country (be it military or volunteer guard or firefighter or whatever), working on election campaigns, running for office (like city council for example), writing letters, sending money to organizations to lobby for your cause, and so forth are all positive things that people could do. Hell, Penn & Teller used their act to make a great point. And we can do these things because we have our freedoms and 1st amendment rights.

If everyone that had a ***** got out there and actually did something positive about it, how much better would our country be?

But instead, some people want to waste their 1st amendment rights on flag burning and vehement protests that seem to only serve to close off the discussion rather then produce any positive results?

I think that there are far better things that can be done with our freedoms, that's all...

 

[Archangel M]

I think the right to burn the flag is a beautiful thing.

I think those who burn the flag are scumbags.

 

[Doc_Jude]

I think the right to burn the flag is a beautiful thing.

I think those who burn the flag are scumbags.

THAT should be a bumper sticker. No, a tshirt.

 

[Tez3]

I think the right to burn the flag is a beautiful thing.

I think those who burn the flag are scumbags.

Succinctly put! A flag is just a symbol and while it winds people up other people will continue to burn it. If you shrug and say well it's just a piece of material, you can't burn my beliefs you will come out as the bigger person. Someone said there are better ways to protest, of course there are but for as long as it makes people angry the demonstrators will burn flags and effigies. In this world with instant media it's the quickest way to make a show of hate or disapproval.
Flags quite frankly are transient, they change. How many flags has your country had in it's history? You had our Union Flag ( not a Union Jack as people like to call it) can you say your people didn't burn it? Then you had your flags during the Civil War, your current flag changed as you acquired territory. I believe the Hawaii State flag still retains the British Union flag on it. We have flags for most organisations and most commercial companies have a flag, to say flags can't be burnt would be to take away your rights.
People didn't die for a flag they died for a principle and a basic human right, freedom. They died to make a freer world, to allow us to live and thrive in a free world. To be able to express our opinions and to live without fear, if a flag is burnt don't get upset, just say well it's a freedom we are allowed and many aren't. Can you imagine burning a flag in Nazi Germany, the old USSR and many mordern countries? We don't have to like it at all but burning a flag is also a symbol of freedom. Can you also honestly say you wouldn't burn someone else's such as Saddam's or Osama Bin Ladens? If you saw someone burning Iraq's, Syria's etc flags would you stop them on the same principle you'd want to stop someone burning yours? It's a small price of freedom that we allow people who disagree with us to voice that disagreement.
If you see someone burning your flag, say well I don't like it but hey man, we have a FREE country and glory in that fact, it's very precious.

 

[Sukerkin]

That was a good precis of the concept, Archangel :tup:.

An excellent post from Jks (amongst others) above, which states very nicely the point I was unsuccessfully trying to make in another thread a couple of days ago.

I'm heartened to read the general rationales behind the stances taken on this issue too. Understanding why someone believes what they do may not change anothers views but makes it much easier to avoid stepping on toes unnecessarily.