Pekiti Tirsia Kali mixes with other arts

Discussion in 'Filipino Martial Arts - General' started by dpena8, Mar 19, 2017.

  1. dpena8

    dpena8 White Belt

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    Im going to be taking a kali class soon and wanted to know how well it is to incorporate others arts into it such as wing chun, hapkido, or even judo
     
  2. Charlemagne

    Charlemagne Brown Belt

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    PTK can blend well with other arts, depending on the arts you have in mind, with the ones you listed above, I believe that WC would blend the best. Having said that, I see a better blend with something like Thai Boxing, Silat, and BJJ. But then, I try to think of multiple arts being trained together as which ones are going to complement the art rather than overlap too much, or replace.

    I think you would struggle significantly trying to integrate PTK and Hapkido.
     
  3. Charlemagne

    Charlemagne Brown Belt

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    Where are you looking to train?
     
  4. Danny T

    Danny T Senior Master

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    Pekiti blends well with several other arts. Wing Chun very much so. Many principles are shared. A lot of the advance knife work is quite similar though the drills are different. Hapkido overall I don't feel will blend well however understanding the wrist, elbow, and shoulder locks will be greatly enhanced between the two. As to Judo I've only a low level of experience but understanding the controlling the body for sweeps is great but changes rather drastically when a blade is introduced. However understanding some of the throws and ground work can certainly give one a more resourceful skill set.
     
  5. ShortBridge

    ShortBridge Purple Belt

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    It is very common to mix Kali and Wing Chun, but I personally find them almost entirely incompatible.

    If you've not taken a Kali class yet, on what are you basing your opinion that it is an incomplete system that needs to be augmented with something else?
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2017
  6. dpena8

    dpena8 White Belt

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    you should never stay with only one style and should always try others and mix because it gives you other ways to defend yourself and would open your mind to more things and oppnent can do to you
     
  7. ShortBridge

    ShortBridge Purple Belt

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    I see.
     
  8. geezer

    geezer Grandmaster

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    Shortbridge, I'd be really interested on hearing you elaborate on that, seeing as the escrima system I teach (evolved from Latosa Escrima Concepts and Torres DTE) integrates seamlessly with my VT although I can see how other systems of Arnis/Kali/Escrima might not.
     
  9. ShortBridge

    ShortBridge Purple Belt

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    It's a debate that I don't want to have, because it won't get resolved. It is very common to mix Filipino styles with Wing Chun. Lots of people do it, including you and I don't want to suggest that what you do isn't valid or even great.

    I think the marriage of these systems has mostly to do with Bruce Lee/Dan Inosanto, and I don't mean disrespect to either them or anyone who chooses to train that way, but my own experience and training has landed me at a different conclusion.

    There are things about Filipino styles that I like and admire, but strategically and philosophically, I don't find the approach complimentary with Wing Chun. That in no way suggests that what I do is better, just that I don't feel that they integrate smoothly. I knew when I posted that, someone would see it differently, but I still wanted to put a different perspective out there.

    The OP and I also differ on this point:

    "you should never stay with only one style and should always try others and mix because it gives you other ways to defend yourself and would open your mind to more things and oppnent can do to you"

    ..but I'm not about to try to convince a 23 year old that he doesn't know everything. It would have been tough to convince me at 23.

    I will just add that I would not train someone who came to me and said that he wanted to learn what I had, even though he knew it was incomplete and he was already working on what would make it better. There are places for that, but I'm just not of that school.
     
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  10. Charlemagne

    Charlemagne Brown Belt

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    From a biomechanics perspective, what causes people to think (myself included) that WC and Kali integrate well is that they both include the trapping range. WC lives there a great deal, and depending on what system of Kali you train you will spend a good deal of time there as well. However, when one looks closer at the mechanics of how trapping is done, it is quite different in PTK versus WC. In addition, the strategy and tactics of the two systems are different, and I can easily see how that would lead to problems.

    So, from a complementality of systems perspective, I don't think that PTK and WC are a good mix. Of the ones listed by the OP, it would be what I would do, but I honestly wouldn't choose any of the ones he listed to mix with PTK.
     
  11. ShortBridge

    ShortBridge Purple Belt

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    Good post, thank you, Charlemagne. I will say, though that even "trapping range" is not what I know to be a Wing Chun concept. I think that came from JKD, but maybe it existed before.

    It is true that trapping occurs in Wing Chun, but none of the lineages I've trained in have presented it that way and to do so, would I think be an area that conflicts with some core principles.

    Wing Chun techniques without principles is not Wing Chun. If you take pieces of Wing Chun and mix it with something anthetical, you don't get Wing Chun+, you get something else entirely. Maybe something good, but how could anyone starting out have a basis for knowing that they can create something better?

    Maybe after 10 years or so, but that's rarely what we're talking about.

    Again, just my perspective.
     
  12. Charlemagne

    Charlemagne Brown Belt

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    Makes sense. JKD has greater variability in range than WC, which would necessitate distinctions between ranges in ways that differ from WC as its parent art. This is not intended to be a pejorative, just an observation.

    As for the rest, I am in agreement. While I do like the idea of training more than one art, as I noted above, training multiple arts that deal with some of the same things doesn't make as much sense to me. If that is what you want, why not train two arts that don't overlap much but could complement each other (karate and judo, or MT and BJJ, etc.)? It's not wrong to look at an art like BJJ for example, and say "man I really like what they do on the ground, but they don't do much stand up, so I better train something along side of it"...
     
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  13. ShortBridge

    ShortBridge Purple Belt

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    I would agree with the idea that it might make more sense, if you were going to mix things, that you choose less-related things. Something with striking and something else with ground fighting. Or something empty hand and someone weapon related. Less opportunity for conflict or contradiction that way.
     
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