NKF Karate US Open/JR Olympics start today!

Discussion in 'Tae-Kwon-Do' started by Gorilla, Apr 6, 2012.

  1. Gorilla

    Gorilla Master of Arts

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    The reason that I post this is that the NKF is the NGB of karate that is a full Medal sport at the Pan Ams and a ful fleged NGB. This NGB has had some problems but seems to have bounced back. They really run a clean event about 3000 competitors from 50 to 60 countries Friday thru Sunday. This is our second year attending and Charlie will be fighting. Kym is rehabing a ankle injury.

    When you compare this NGB to ours we lose badly from professional/competence stand point. I will give updates as to how things are going over the weekend.
     
  2. Grenadier

    Grenadier Administrator Staff Member

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    Good luck to you and your group! Several of my Karate friends are enjoying Las Vegas at this very moment...

    It's true that the USA-NKF had a rough start, but they've cleaned things up quite nicely. I just wish that the WKF (which is what the USA-NKF bases its rules on) would stop making the radical changes to the rules...
     
  3. ATC

    ATC Senior Master

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    Good luck to Charlie. How did they do last time? I would like to know how a TKD base and background stood up in a Karate touney. I know they also do Shotakan but they are still more TKD than Karate.
     
  4. Gorilla

    Gorilla Master of Arts

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    Art both of them won bronze medals last year in the advanced division which is the BB division in NKF. Kym won silver at their Nationals. Tkd translates well if you have multiple skills. NKF has sweeps and take downs and is punching oriented. It is nice to know some judo which my kids do. The scoring is 3 for a controlled head kick. 2 for a kick to the body. 3 for a take down with a finishing punch. 1 point for a punch to body and head. Punch to the head must be controlled.

    I will post more have to leave for the tourney.
     
  5. puunui

    puunui Senior Master

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    How is the karate ngb better or different from usat? What things do you think usat could learn from or adopt from karate?
     
  6. Gorilla

    Gorilla Master of Arts

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    Puunui...very tired spent about 30 hours so far at the venue...ability to generate participation at the club level is evident right away...I will post more to tired to type.
     
  7. Gorilla

    Gorilla Master of Arts

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    Charlie got fifth...he had 64 in his division...lost in the quarter finals to the gold medalist...that put him in the repacharge (I really like this). The repacharge is when the the fighters who lost to the finalist fight it out for two 3rd place. Charlie lost in the finals of the repacharge placing 5th. He did well his first fight was the Canadian National Team member which he won. Charlies two losses were to the USA national team member and the National Team member from Bosnia. This was the 14/15 under 114lb ADV (BB div).

    Art you are right he is a TKD Fighter at the core and he draws on that allot when he fights. Still learning the Karate game. His defense against take downs has Improved tremendously. He even scored 6 points on take downs that judo training came in handy. The Dojo judo coach watch all the fights and has allot of new ideas.

    TKD alone would have allot of problems because of the rule set. But it is also very effective add to karate.

    Have to go more latter
     
  8. hungryninja

    hungryninja Orange Belt

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    What would be the main differences in the rules?

     
  9. Grenadier

    Grenadier Administrator Staff Member

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    USA-NKF rules allow you to sweep and throw. Also, the back is a valid target that can result in a score. There have been various USA-NKF regional tournaments that I referee where a Tae Kwon Do practitioner who was unfamiliar with the rules would turn his back to the opponent, only to end up getting kicked in the back for a solid 2 point score, or where he would disregard guarding his head against punches, only to end up getting punched there (controlled) for a 1 point score.

    Also, if a fighter gets too dependent on kicks, it's only a matter of time before an opponent with good timing can rush in, jam or catch the kick, follow through with a takedown and a strike, resulting a 3 points award (you fight to either 8 points total, or an 8 point spread). It's also no secret that well over 60% of your points are going to come from punches, especially reverse punch.

    Furthermore, all strikes must demonstrate several criteria before they can be judged as scoring techniques, which may be different from the criteria in a Tae Kwon Do competition.

    This isn't to say that Tae Kwon Do practitioners can't do well at the USA-NKF tournaments. If anything, their aggressive kicking techniques and combinations can catch many a competitor off guard for some quick ippons (3 point scores). However, just as with any competitor, they need to be familiar with the rules, before diving in.
     
  10. puunui

    puunui Senior Master

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    Taekwondo is spelled as one word, which to me is easier to type. But in any event, what part of the back is a scoring area under the USA-NKF rules? The back is also a legal scoring area under both the USAT and WTF sparring competition rules.

    I don't know if George Kotaka and Elisa Au compete with the USA-NKF. They might be more AAU competitors, although I have to say I don't really follow closely enough to know the difference. But both trained under a taekwondo student of mine, working on their footwork and primarily back leg roundhouse kick. It was slow going in the beginning, but then they understood and caught on real fast after that. Soon thereafter, I saw George competing at the Titan Games, and was surprised to see him moving like a taekwondo competitor, using steps and scoring with his back leg off the line roundhouse kick.
     
  11. Gorilla

    Gorilla Master of Arts

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    George Kotaka is the poster boy for the NKF. ELisa Au Fonseca is the poster girl. They are highly respected in the Karate world. Many of the high end Karate fighters train in TKD. including my kids Sensei Hiroshi Allen.

    A TKD fighter can do very well in NKF/WKF but they must adapt to the rules and the scoring nuances.

    I have had the pleasure of speaking to Mr. Kotaka last night in fact he is a very approachable nice man. He coached 9 year olds on one of my rings. It was very refreshing to see how handled the young kids.
     
  12. Gorilla

    Gorilla Master of Arts

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    The NKF would appear to be run much like many NGB's a dictatorship. The big difference is that the people running the Karate NGB are very good businessmen with Karate backgrounds. They are very good at what they do. The USAT is also a dictatorship run by bumbling fools.

    The referee Corp in the NKF is also very strong. The gap from top to bottom is not as big. The top end IR's are just as good and just as professional as the WKF referees but the drop off in TKD is much steeper. It would appear that the NKF does a much better job of referee development.
     
  13. Gorilla

    Gorilla Master of Arts

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    AAU has a small presence in Karate. They get about 800 at nationals and have a much smaller membership than the NKF.

    As we all know the AAU has more members than our NGB and the National numbers that are very similar.

    The NKF has been able to limit the size of the AAU by providing a superior product.

    Our NGB is not concerned about the product and only get members because of the NGB carrot. OLYMPICS and the World Championships without that it would be defunct.

    The NKF is able to provide a better product for its customers.
     
  14. puunui

    puunui Senior Master

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    Next time you see him, try and ask him if he ever studied taekwondo to improve his kicking. :) I think he could be a US National Taekwondo Team member if he wanted to, in sparring and poomsae.

    His father was an awesome practitioner and is still an awesome teacher. Kotaka Sensei was an All Japan champion back in 1962. Another instructor here from Japan was claiming that he too was an All Japan Champion, but it later came out that he wasn't and Kotaka Sensei was the only one who had that honor.
     
  15. puunui

    puunui Senior Master

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    Do you have a link to a webpage? I want to check out their stuff, especially their bylaws.
     
  16. Gorilla

    Gorilla Master of Arts

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    Just google NKF karate or USA NKF.
     
  17. Gorilla

    Gorilla Master of Arts

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    George Kotaka is a Two time World Champion and is now retired. He is a tremendous athlete who would have been a tremendous Tkd fighter. Lopez caliber!!!!
     
  18. Gorilla

    Gorilla Master of Arts

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    Grenadier...I think that your post is dead on about USA-NKF and needing to know the rule set and the interpretation of the rules. There have been some pretty successful European Karate practitioners who use Tkd techs. Christophe Pina is one that comes to mind. He has several you tube vids people can check out.


    google Christophe Pinna....European Karate seems to have been influenced by Tkd.


    Pinna is a TKD BB .
    The Benetello vs Pinna fight is a modified rules fight but very fun to watch and you see allot of Tkd
     
  19. Grenadier

    Grenadier Administrator Staff Member

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    It's correct either way. I simply choose to spell it in the same way my Tae Kwon Do teacher spelled it. If someone chooses to spell Karate as Kara-Te or Kara Te, it's fine either way, as long as they stay consistent (especially for business purposes...).

    It's no different than Korean folks living in English-speaking areas (or German, French, Spanish, etc) spelling their names as they want to spell it. For example, Kim Dae Jung could be spelled as Kim Daejung, Dae Jung Kim, or Daejung Kim, and any of those would be correct.

    Anywhere except the spine or kidneys.

    These days, they're more ambassadors and coaches, but they did, indeed, compete a lot with the USA-NKF, and both represented the USA at the WKF tournaments (pretty much the same rules).

    George Kotaka was always hungry for knowledge, adding anything that he could to improve his game. He regularly trained with other dojos in the area as well, even ones that were seen as his father's competitors. He's a great guy to have around, and is a inspiration to everyone with whom he trains. Best of all, he's a class act. I hope that he continues to inspire the US Karate team competitors, since everyone can learn from him.

    Replacing him on the US team isn't going to be easy at all, but thankfully, the US has a deep talent pool, and an excellent array of coaches.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2012
  20. Grenadier

    Grenadier Administrator Staff Member

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    Indeed. If anything, its evolution reminds me of how the UFC started out.

    It's less about how "my style is better than your style" and instead, how we can all learn from each other. It doesn't matter whether someone is Shotokan, Shito Ryu, Goju Ryu, Wado Ryu, etc., but rather, who can do the best job of teaching techniques from systems, and who can learn them. If you look at the US National Team athletes, they all have quite a bit of similarity with each other, in terms of their array of techniques, their conditioning, and other aspects of training.

    I've had the pleasure of training in a couple of Hiroshi Allen's clinics back in December, and sure enough, his movements and techniques are quite similar to the ones that were used by other former team members (now coaches themselves) Tommy Hood and Dustin Baldis during their clinics. While each of them focused on certain areas during those clinics, it was quite refreshing to see how similar they were to each other overall. Of course, the biggest similarity to me, was how sore the muscles were the day after...123
     

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