Chris Parker
Grandmaster
Hi Troy,
I was wondering if you could clarify this statement? I've been going through my notes here for as many sources as I can find, and am unsure which kata you are refering to. The lists I have for Takagi Yoshin Ryu are as follows, with the following code (Jinenkan Download = JNK, Bujinkan List from Arnoud Cousergue = BJK, Missouri Budo Taijutsu list [mbdojo.com] = MBT, Takagi Ryu Chugokui Mokuroku, a translated Makimono of Takagi Ryu from 1844 by Stephen Greenfield = TRC, Hatsumi's Unarmed Fighting Techniques book = UFT):
Okuden Shirabe no Gata
1: Gai Do (JNK), Baido (BJK), Gai Do (MBT), Kuruma Gaeshi (TRC), Ume Haki (UFT)
2: Kuruma Gaeshi (JNK), Kuruma Gaeshi (BJK), Kuruma Gaeshi (MBT), Ten Gaeshi (TRC), Kuruma Gaeshi (UFT).
3: Ten Gaeshi (JNK), Ten Gaeshi (BJK), Ten Gaeshi (MBT), Baido (TRC), Ten Gaeshi (UFT)
4: Nagare Dori (JNK), Nagare Dori (BJK), Nagare Dori (MBT), Nagare Dori (TRC), Nagare Dori (UFT) - NOTE: For Hatsumi's book, it then states that the rest of the 12 kata are kuden, and appear under the title of Gokui. They are not listed in the book.
5: Yama Otoshi (JNK), Yama Otoshi (BJK), Yama Otoshi (MBT), Yama Otoshi (TRC)
6: Tomo Arashi (JNK), Kura Arashi/Tomo Arashi (BJK - second name taken from Ueno Takashi 20th Anniversary booklet), Tomo Arashi (MBT), Sode Guruma (TRC)
7: Sode Guruma (JNK), Sode Guruma (BJK), Sode Guruma (MBT), Tan Sai/Kimo Kudaki (TRC)
8: Ryo-te Gake (JNK), Ryo-te Gake (BJK), Ryo-te Gake (MBT), Rai Raku (TRC)
9: To Sai (JNK), Tan Sai (BJK), To Sai (MBT), Tai Kudaki (TRC)
10: Sue Otoshi (JNK), Sue Otoshi (BJK), Sue Otoshi (MBT), Sofu (TRC)
11: Tai Kudaki (JNK), Tai Kudaki (BJK), Tai Kudaki (MBT), Gyaku Dori (TRC)
12: Sofu (JNK), Sofu (BJK), Sofu (MBT), Fu Setsu (TRC - this is the last kata presented, and the second section for the Okuden does not appear in the Makimono)
13: Gyaku Dori (JNK), Gyaku Dori (BJK), Gyaku Dori (MBT)
14: Ranpu (JNK), Ranpu (BJK), Rampu (MBT)
15: Fu Setsu (JNK), Fu Setsu (BJK), Fu Setsu (MBT)
So for the Shirabe Gata, there is a slight change to the order from the Chugokui Mokuroku, and a few omissions, but it is essentially easily recognisable as the same Ryu-ha. For the rest, it is pretty much identical, with one or two minor variations.
Okuden Moguri no Gata
1: Gokuraku Dori (JNK), Gyakuraku Otoshi (BJK), Gokuraku Otoshi (MBT), Gokuraku Otoshi (UFT)
2: Jigoku Dori (JNK), Jigoku Otoshi (BJK), Jigoku Otoshi (MBT), Jigoku Otoshi (UFT)
3: Tama Kudaki (JNK), Tama Kudaki (BJK), Tama Kudaki (MBT), Tama Kudaki (UFT)
4: Hicho Dori (JNK), Hicho Dori (BJK), Hicho Dori (MBT), Hicho Dori (UFT)
5: Oni Buse (JNK), Oni Buse (BJK), Oni Buse (MBT), Oni Buse (UFT)
6: Inazuma Nage (JNK), Inazuma Nage (BJK), Inazuma Nage (MBT), Inazuma Nage (UFT)
7: Mizu Dori (JNK), Mizu Dori (BJK), Mizu Dori (MBT), Mizutori (UFT)
8: Rai Setsu (JNK), Kisetsu/Rai Setsu (BJK), Rai Setsu (MBT), Kuru Yuki (UFT)
9: Tai Otoshi (JNK), Tai Otoshi (BJK), Tai Otoshi (MBT), Tai Otoshi (UFT)
10: Moguri Dori (JNK), Moguri Dori (BJK), Moguri Dori (MBT), Moguri Dori (UFT)
11: Moguri Nage (JNK), Moguri Nage (BJK), Moguri Nage (MBT), Moguri Nage (UFT)
Again, there are a few variations, but it is fairly universal across the lists.
Now, some of the names are the same as ones found in the two forms of Shinden Fudo Ryu (Ryote Gake in the Dakentaijutsu, Shizen Shigoku no Gata; Fu Setsu in the Jutaijutsu, Chuden no Gata), as well as some that are very similar (Yama Otoshi in TYR, Yama Arashi in SFRJTJ, and others), and there are certainly very similarly executed kata, I was just wondering which ones in particular you felt (in Manaka Sensei's performance and list) were SFR rather than TYR?
