Need advice from experienced SD instructors

[Jonathan Randall]

At a friend's request I am teaching him basic kickboxing techniques to practice on his upright bag (not a wavemaster, his is much heavier and better crafted). Since he's been wailing at it untrained I figured that teaching him basics such as the jab, cross, hook, uppercut, sidekick, frontkick, etc. correctly would help him to aquire some skill while improving his physical fitness level. He is a large man and very strong so even without training he would have an advantage in an unarmed confrontation.

However, I found myself adding self-defense techniques during our first workout together this afternoon. What I am looking for is a DVD that I could purchase for him that covers basic realistic self-defense that I could leave with him to practice during the week (we workout on weekends). I need this DVD to cover COMMON attacks (bear hugs, headlocks, ground pound, rushing attacks, haymakers, etc.) and be one that I could purchase online from a mainstream vendor (Amazon, etc.). The one important restriction is that the techniques need to be straightforward and of the type that I would already be familiar with (Kenpo, Boxing, TKD, Judo background). In other words, no DVD of an exotic but super-effective art that I would NOT be qualified to help my friend with. It also needs to be reasonably priced.

I am assigning him "Strong on Defense" and "The Gift of Fear" as required reading for assault prevention.

Thanks in advance.

 

[KenpoTex]

In no particular order...

You might check out some of Carl Cestari's tapes/dvds. His material is drawn primarily from WWII combatives with some judo/BJJ type stuff included. Very agressive, no-nonsense material. Somewhat pricey but from what I've seen, worth it. (my current "wish-list" includes some of his tapes)

Kelly Worden's material would also be great. I had the opportunity to attend a seminar he taught earlier this year and was very impressed. He has a two-tape set called "Ultimate Streetfighter." While I have not seen this particular set, if it's anything like the material he presented at the seminar, or the material on some of the other tapes I have from him, it's good stuff.

Another instructor I've heard good things about is Kelly McCann/Jim Grover I've not seen any of his material but I've been told by people who's opinions I respect that his stuff is very good.

Hope this helps, I'm sure others will chime in with some more ideas for you.

 

[MJS]

At a friend's request I am teaching him basic kickboxing techniques to practice on his upright bag (not a wavemaster, his is much heavier and better crafted). Since he's been wailing at it untrained I figured that teaching him basics such as the jab, cross, hook, uppercut, sidekick, frontkick, etc. correctly would help him to aquire some skill while improving his physical fitness level. He is a large man and very strong so even without training he would have an advantage in an unarmed confrontation.

However, I found myself adding self-defense techniques during our first workout together this afternoon. What I am looking for is a DVD that I could purchase for him that covers basic realistic self-defense that I could leave with him to practice during the week (we workout on weekends). I need this DVD to cover COMMON attacks (bear hugs, headlocks, ground pound, rushing attacks, haymakers, etc.) and be one that I could purchase online from a mainstream vendor (Amazon, etc.). The one important restriction is that the techniques need to be straightforward and of the type that I would already be familiar with (Kenpo, Boxing, TKD, Judo background). In other words, no DVD of an exotic but super-effective art that I would NOT be qualified to help my friend with. It also needs to be reasonably priced.

I am assigning him "Strong on Defense" and "The Gift of Fear" as required reading for assault prevention.

Thanks in advance.

I've heard very good things about Geoff Thompson as well as W. Hock Hochheim. As controversal as it may be, the empty hand SD of Krav Maga is good also. If you're looking for something that you're more familiar with, you could pick up some of Larry Tatums SD DVD's.

Mike

 

[OC Kid]

Look at the Joe Lewis tapes

 

[BallistikMike]

I have to agree with the Carl Cestari tapes. Solid info. Also the Kelly McCann/Jim Grover material is outstanding also. Getting them both has a bit of over lap with subtle twists which is good imo.

Why the self-defense ? Are you going to keep working with him? Kinda hard to do self-defense solo is my thinking. Maybe give him a short outline of the basic target regions and teach him the basics and let it go from there.

Who knows maybe the Self-Defense bug bites and you have a garage/basement training partner?

Good luck to ya.

 

[Jonathan Randall]

I have to agree with the Carl Cestari tapes. Solid info. Also the Kelly McCann/Jim Grover material is outstanding also. Getting them both has a bit of over lap with subtle twists which is good imo.

Why the self-defense ? Are you going to keep working with him? Kinda hard to do self-defense solo is my thinking. Maybe give him a short outline of the basic target regions and teach him the basics and let it go from there.

Who knows maybe the Self-Defense bug bites and you have a garage/basement training partner?

Good luck to ya.

Thanks to all who responded to this thread. The suggestions have been great!

The reason for the self-defense is that, despite my emphasizing the difference betwen hitting a bag correctly, solo, and learning fighting skills, I still got the impression that he thought he was learning how to protect himself. Since he has the layman's illusions, I felt that I had to give him something that would come through for him in a tight situation. Therefore, I am covering the half dozen or so most common untrained street assault scenarios and giving him basic, basic counters while emphasizing SITUATIONAL AWARENESS and assault prevention.

I do have one concern with the Cestari tapes, though. While, if I had a friend who I knew would be in a life or death fight the next day, I would want him or her to spend an hour with Carl over just about anyone else, I am concerned that my friend might, in ignorance, go overboard and seriously injure or kill someone when the situation did not legally or morally justify doing so. I'd rather, knowing his size and strength, concentrate on non-lethal material.

 

[KenpoTex]

...while emphasizing SITUATIONAL AWARENESS and assault prevention.

I am concerned that my friend might, in ignorance, go overboard and seriously injure or kill someone when the situation did not legally or morally justify doing so. I'd rather, knowing his size and strength, concentrate on non-lethal material.

First of all, the awareness and prevention aspects are vital, keep up the good work.

As to the "lethal" vs. non-lethal material, Is your concern that your friend is the troublesome type that might misuse the material? (if so, I'd be hesitant to teach him anything). Or is it just that you're concerned that he might use to much force because he's not well-versed in the self-defense/use of force laws?

If the first is true, like I said, I'd be very careful what I showed him. If it's the second, I wouldn't not work the material with him, I'd just make sure to emphasize that the only scenario where the techniques are appropriate is one in which he is in fear of serious injury or death.

The problem with controlling or "non-lethal" techniques is that there are few unavoidable situations where a civilian would need such material. Police officers are supposed to subdue with a minimum of force. For a civilian, if you have done everything possible to avoid or defuse a confrontation and are still being threatened, then the goal is to stop the threat as quickly as possible with the most effective means available. I know I'm probably "preaching to the choir" but I was just curious as to your reasons for seeking material that may be less "dangerous" but IMO is less effective for self protection.

 

[Jonathan Randall]

First of all, the awareness and prevention aspects are vital, keep up the good work.

As to the "lethal" vs. non-lethal material, Is your concern that your friend is the troublesome type that might misuse the material? (if so, I'd be hesitant to teach him anything). Or is it just that you're concerned that he might use to much force because he's not well-versed in the self-defense/use of force laws?

The problem with controlling or "non-lethal" techniques is that there are few unavoidable situations where a civilian would need such material. Police officers are supposed to subdue with a minimum of force. For a civilian, if you have done everything possible to avoid or defuse a confrontation and are still being threatened, then the goal is to stop the threat as quickly as possible with the most effective means available. I know I'm probably "preaching to the choir" but I was just curious as to your reasons for seeking material that may be less "dangerous" but IMO is less effective for self protection.

No, he is not the "troublesome" type, my concern was that, given his size and strength, he could go overboard without realizing it given his lack of experience. Also, the legal standard for force(practically speaking) for a large adult male is MUCH higher than it would be for a twelve year old girl, for example. That is why I would rather concentrate on techniques such as vertical fists to the solar- plexus and palm strikes to the nose with him instead of eye gouges and throat strikes. True, a palm strike or punch can be lethal but these techniques are more legally defensible for a man his size. Now, my twelve year old niece is going to learn the eye and throat strikes - both because she could more easily "justify" using them in a violent conflict (in an altercation between a young girl and an adult male, police more likely will consider that she was defending herself, whereas they will more likely assume that a male vs. male altercation is a fight rather than an assault and defense.) and because she will need to use them to be able to get away. He's big and strong enough not to have to have them.

By non-lethal, I did not mean restraint techniques. I share your concern over the practicality of controlling techniques for the average person and I'm passing on my bias to my friend. I will get to Cestari type material AFTER he has gained physical control, learned the law well (I gave him a QUICK run-down on excessive force, "duty to retreat", proportional response, levels of force, etc.), and after he has shown sufficient commitment.

Thanks for the response. We are obviously on the same page and you raise good points.

 

[KenpoTex]

By non-lethal, I did not mean restraint techniques. I share your concern over the practicality of controlling techniques for the average person and I'm passing on my bias to my friend. I will get to Cestari type material AFTER he has gained physical control, learned the law well (I gave him a QUICK run-down on excessive force, "duty to retreat", proportional response, levels of force, etc.), and after he has shown sufficient commitment.

Sounds like a plan.

 

[Drac]

I am assigning him "Strong on Defense" and "The Gift of Fear" as required reading for assault prevention.Thanks in advance.

Can't be of much help.. The choice of books are EXCELLENT...

 

[OC Kid]

Heres a link. BTW i jusdt checked and it seems like hes got some new stuff. I'm gonna buy myself