Nasty, Abusive Instructors

[Cthulhu]

The benefits a person gains in the study of martial arts all comes down to that individual. Since everybody is different, the benefits gained will be different for each person.

I was going to say that an exception would be physical fitness; that all MA practitioners will have improved physical fitness. However, that won't always be the case as every class invariably has at least one slacker, who never really tries. Thankfully, they usually don't last long.

Personally, I gained a bit of control over my quick temper. This wasn't concious; it just happened. I definitely don't see myself as 'enlightened' or a 'better human being'. In fact, I'm just as bad a misanthrope as I was before taking up MA seriously, if not worse.

Then you have the people who just want to learn how to fight. My instructor told me of one fella who didn't want to do anything but spar. He'd spend his weekends getting into fights. He didn't really work on forms or techniques. His time as a brown belt was longer than some black belts' entire time at the school. Clearly, martial arts practice did not make him a better person. A better fighter, maybe, but not a better person.

I think martial arts practice has the potential of making someone a 'better person'. However, it all comes down to the person as to whether or not that actually happens.

Ack. Babbling again.

Cthulhu

 

[Despairbear]

Greetings all,
I think abuse in the dojo comes down to willingness. Is a student willing to train in a manner that produces physical harm? Is a student willing to be screamed at in the name of disciplin? If that is the level of trainng the student seeks out then it is not abuse it is trainng. But when a new student walks into a dojo and gets beat-up by the teacher to show him/her that they know nothing that is assault time to call the cops.



Despair Bear

 

[Cthulhu]

I agree with Despairbear...a perfect example is what happened with many Chung Moo Do schools in the early- to mid-nineties. Those students suffered all manner of physical and mental abuse, much of done to extort more money from said students. Some were outright attacked and I've heard of at least one account where a student was hospitalized after doing a series of punitive exercises. The worst part is, many of these students were so brainwashed, they didn't leave the system.

If you want to hear some true horror stories, go to Google groups and look up the old posts on CMD. Not pretty. Not pretty at all.

Cthulhu

 

[Rob_Broad]

I agree some has to be on Gou 's wife side.

But seriously. I know of abusive instructors and have a few of them myself. I got my nose busted 3 times in 3 months sparring with an instructor, and when I busted his I did more push ups than anyone in the school had ever seen.

I have even had people try to be abusive when they were working for me, they liked to hit a little too hard when sparring, or slam the student too hard during a technique. They great thing was there class was always the after the beginners that they were mean too, and I would show them what it is like to be abused.

People like Jaybaca, and Gou who work together on a regualr basis no eachothers threshhold and like to push that limit on a regular basis. That can be good, but they are not malicious in their training. I have seen a Jaybaca class, it is not for the thin skinned out of shape kenpo guys like me, but they do give me something to shoot for.

 

[DWright]

A five year old grandson of a friend of mine begged to be taken to a local TKD school. He had watched classes through the window and was hooked. (until he went to class the first time.)

If the kids did not perform a technique properly the first time or were not paying attention the instructor verbally berated those kids. Calling them "stupid and worthless, etc..." What I found to be the worst though was that the parents didn't stand up for their own kids.

This kid had banged sticks with me in the past, and now is so soured on the Martial Arts that he won't even practice with me.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Ick. Instructors like that idiot should be nailed for abuse.

 

[Cthulhu]

Fabricate some excuse for the boy to be at your classes. Maybe watching a few classes with quality instruction, he'll get over his bad experience.

Cthulhu

 

[tshadowchaser]

I have worked out with a few instructors that many found to be over abusive in their sparring and in the class in general. However I went into these clases knowing the instructors reputation. The end reslut I got one heck of a learning experence and stayes long enough to find out that what appeard to be overly arsh was in reality their way of finding out who realy wanted to learn and to aquaint the student with pain and how to get past it.
They only wanted the best and they only kept the ones who would not give under a little pain. They taught survival not sport However if they thought a student teacher was picking on someone or that anything was questonable in the persons ethics Well woe be to that person they really learned pain
On the sexual abuse issue. I knew of one instructor whom I had always heard made passes at almost every female in his classses. Some stayed some went. For some reason no one ever complained to the police. Don't even know of a instance of a husband or boyfriend "takeing him out".The man wasn't that great at what he taught. alway wonder why he survived.
Shadow

 

[kickyou]

There was a Martial Art Instructor that was in Missouri years ago that was convicted and went to prison for raping a 12 year old girl in the dojo.He is now out and teaching in the State of Washington he is a Master.What bothers me about this is the guy was simply allowed to move after he got out of prison and now has a very successful chain of schools in another state do you think he learned his lesson?

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Given what usually happens to people like that in prison.... we can only hope so.

Personally, I think those type of predators should be permanently 'fixed'...but thats just my opinion.

:asian:

 

[kickyou]

I could not agree more they need to be "fixed" surgically so that they could no longer experience that type of feeling anymore.I truly hope he was taken care of in prison but I seriously doubt that he was.The prison system here in Missouri protects these perverts and only puts them with their own kind.Beacuse they have "rights" you know.

 

[Apache26b]

I think its a matter of perspective....and the individual..take a real SOB!...teach him the ins and outs of a various martial art, and what do you end up with? A highly trained SOB.Is it possible that along the way, he will "see the light"? Maybe. Maybe not. I can attest to that. I studied for years with a guy when I was a kid. He was one of the the badest dudes I've met. But he was a class A jerk. After leaving his school none of the other instructors in the area would take me for fear of having one of "his" students come in and give their school the @$$hole coodies. He was the very definition of highly trained SOB. I later found out that the "ninjitsu" he taught at his school didn't even exist. Turns out it was his brand of Shatokan. . . Jerk

 

[tshadowchaser]

What is considered nasty or abusive instruction today may have been the norm for many schools back in the late “60's or early 70's. Back then it was common for the students to get pummeled every night by other students and sometimes the instructors. People did not sue instructors back then if they got hit to hard or had a broken tooth. Students back then where expected to give and receive hard contact every night. Most schools back then wanted fighters not people who just wanted to get in shape or get a black belt in 2-3 years. The standards where much higher for any rank back then and you had to earn it with blood sweat and maybe tears (although tears where usually frowned upon unless you fought through them and kept going).
If an instructor is just being a bully and picking on those he can beat with ease they he is a bad instructor. If that same instructor takes as well as he gives and allows those he could easily beat get some good shots on him once in a while then maybe he is just pushing them to their limits while trying to increase the limits of the student.
We all know there are good instructors and bad ones, being able to distinguish the true intend of the instructor is sometimes hard. Many times I considered my instructor to be a sadistic SOB, but after years of retrospect I now understand what he was trying to do and what he wanted out of me. Not saying he was not sadistic at times just that I now understand his thinking a little better.

 

[Josh Oakley]

There was a Martial Art Instructor that was in Missouri years ago that was convicted and went to prison for raping a 12 year old girl in the dojo.He is now out and teaching in the State of Washington he is a Master.What bothers me about this is the guy was simply allowed to move after he got out of prison and now has a very successful chain of schools in another state do you think he learned his lesson?

That's my state. Which master are you talking about? Which chain of schools?