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Beam
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I recently met someone who teaches this style of Kung-Fu. I am just curious if anyone knows anything about this style. Thanks.
OP
Sanxiawuyi
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Mu Dong Kung Fu is Cantonese.
I speak Chinese (Mandarin), but I believe that Mu Dong Kung Fu is Cantonese For Wudang Gong Fu.
The Wudang (also know as Wutang) styles are internal or Neigong systems founded by the Daoist monks of Wudangshan (Wudang Mountain).
Wudang Mountains are in the Northwest part of Hubei province. Original name of this mountain was Taiheshan (Mountains of Great Peace). When monk Zhen Wu reached Dao here and raised to the Heaven, the name was changed to Wudangshan (Mountains of the formation of Wu).
It is believed to be the birthplace of many internal styles such as Taijiquan, Baguazhang, etc.
First mentions about wudang styles can be found during the documents of XVI century, when Zhang Songxi found "neijiaquan" (fist of inner family) and opposed it to Shaolin style. During XVII century general Wang Zhengnan refused to serve to Manchu dynasty, went to the northern part of Zhejiang province and propaganded the "wudangdao" (Way of Wudang mountains) system of fighting among local officials.
The most typical wudang style is wudang tayi wuxing qinpu (grapples and atacks of Five Praelements and The Great One from Wudang mountains), also called wudangquan (fist of Wudang mountains). This style was created by daoist Zhang Shouxing at the end of XV century. This style has 23 forms, training is separated to training of the steps and training of the hands, there exist 35 methods of using the hands and 18 methods of moving. Style use snake-like moving (S-form moving), force going along the spiral.
Another well-known wudang styles are kongmenquan (Fist of the Gate of Emptiness), yumenquan (Fist of the Gate of Fish). Jiugong shibatui (18 legs of 9 palaces) emphasizes kicking techniques. Wudangpai also includes wujiquan (Fist of Boundlessness), yaozi changquan (Long Fist of the Hawk), yuanzhou fudiquan (Fist of rubbing Monkey, hidden near the ground), liubu sanshou (Combat Methods of 6 Steps).
Yet another very popular system is wudang jian (Wudang methods of using straight sword). Sword was usual attribute of daoist monk, was used during religious ceremonies, so it is not strange that sword was also used for fighting.
I hope this helps!
Sanxiawuyi
:asian:
I speak Chinese (Mandarin), but I believe that Mu Dong Kung Fu is Cantonese For Wudang Gong Fu.
The Wudang (also know as Wutang) styles are internal or Neigong systems founded by the Daoist monks of Wudangshan (Wudang Mountain).
Wudang Mountains are in the Northwest part of Hubei province. Original name of this mountain was Taiheshan (Mountains of Great Peace). When monk Zhen Wu reached Dao here and raised to the Heaven, the name was changed to Wudangshan (Mountains of the formation of Wu).
It is believed to be the birthplace of many internal styles such as Taijiquan, Baguazhang, etc.
First mentions about wudang styles can be found during the documents of XVI century, when Zhang Songxi found "neijiaquan" (fist of inner family) and opposed it to Shaolin style. During XVII century general Wang Zhengnan refused to serve to Manchu dynasty, went to the northern part of Zhejiang province and propaganded the "wudangdao" (Way of Wudang mountains) system of fighting among local officials.
The most typical wudang style is wudang tayi wuxing qinpu (grapples and atacks of Five Praelements and The Great One from Wudang mountains), also called wudangquan (fist of Wudang mountains). This style was created by daoist Zhang Shouxing at the end of XV century. This style has 23 forms, training is separated to training of the steps and training of the hands, there exist 35 methods of using the hands and 18 methods of moving. Style use snake-like moving (S-form moving), force going along the spiral.
Another well-known wudang styles are kongmenquan (Fist of the Gate of Emptiness), yumenquan (Fist of the Gate of Fish). Jiugong shibatui (18 legs of 9 palaces) emphasizes kicking techniques. Wudangpai also includes wujiquan (Fist of Boundlessness), yaozi changquan (Long Fist of the Hawk), yuanzhou fudiquan (Fist of rubbing Monkey, hidden near the ground), liubu sanshou (Combat Methods of 6 Steps).
Yet another very popular system is wudang jian (Wudang methods of using straight sword). Sword was usual attribute of daoist monk, was used during religious ceremonies, so it is not strange that sword was also used for fighting.
I hope this helps!
Sanxiawuyi
:asian:
OP
Chiduce
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It is also my understanding that a text which was written in 1928 by Jin Yiming included not only the internal chinese fighting systems, but included also a text relating to the hard, external fighting arts as well! It appears that this text, if in fact it has a (name) and contains both the internal and external systems within wudang boxing methods; that one starts internal and eventually has to experience the external concepts of his/her style, or at least experience a compatible system which would blend with their respective styles and vice-versa. This would suggest proper balance of yin and yang within the practitioner's execution and application of combative motion. Any thoughts on this 1928 book and it's analogies of wudang quan fa? Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!
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Sanxiawuyi
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Hi Chiduce ,
I am familiar with the book you are referring to written by Jin Yiming, Secrets of Wudang Boxing (in Mandarin it is Wudang Quanshu Mijue).
I have seen some English translations of the "Striking Vital Points Section" of the original Chinese text, but I think you are a little misguided about the internal vs. external.
There are many systems of Wudang boxing that you would call hard, but they are still referred to as Neigong (internal) or soft systems in China.
Any martial arts, which focus on the development of qi (chi), are referred to as Neigong systems.
Any martial art that focuses on muscular and skeletal skill is referred to as a Waigong system (Waigon = external) Youngchunquan (Wing Chun), Cailifoquan (Choy Lay Fut), Huzunquan (Tiger fist), etc
As I have said before in another post, this does not mean that one does not use forceful techniques, or one is softer or harder, it just means that one system focuses more on the internal aspects of qi (chi) more then the other.
Some external systems pay some attention to this Neigong (internal), such as the Crane systems, Hongjiaquan (Hung gar/family fist), but rely mostly on strength and muscular force; where as systems such as Baguazhang and Taijiquan will rely more on qi, rooting, fa-jing, etc..
Also, there is a section of this text translated by Patrick McCarthy in the Bubishi, on the obscure technique called the Dian Xue (Dim Mak in Cantonese), and cavity striking.
Sanxiawuyi
:asian:
OP
Sanxiawuyi
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That is very difficult, as there are not many English books, to my knowledge, with much authentic Chinese martial history. Most are in Chinese, but I will check for you. I will say there is MUCH more then "Shaolin" in Chinese history of martial arts.
For now, try the following Excerpt from "The Chinese Martial Arts in Historical Perspective" by Stanley Henning:
Martial Arts Myths of Shaolin Monastery
Part I: The Giant with the Flaming Staff
by Stanley Henning p.173.
This article is the first in a series designed to reveal the circumstances surrounding the myths associated with the Chinese martial arts and provide a more accurate picture of the historical environment in which the martial arts flourished in China over the centuries.
Most of these myths are related to the role of Shaolin Monastery and they have exaggerated the monastery's image out of all proportion to its actual significance. As a result, there appears to be a widespread misperception that the Chinese martial arts, especially boxing, were mainly a product of "... mystic, martial monks in their mountain monasteries ..."{1} Actually, nothing could be farther from the truth. The martial arts were a widespread aspect of Chinese popular culture, and their practice in Shaolin Monastery was a reflection of this society-wide phenomenon. A unique combination of fact and fiction associated with the monastery, however, has resulted in it being seen by many as the center of focus for the Chinese martial arts in general and the home of Chinese boxing in particular. This view is distorted at best.
Raids by the Northern Wei Emperor in 446 AD on monasteries in and around Changan (now Xian) which uncovered arms caches, indicates that Chinese monks likely practiced martial arts before Shaolin Monastery was founded in 495 AD{2} In the first place, the monks came from the ranks of a population among which the martial arts were widely practiced prior to the introduction of Buddhism. Secondly, the monasteries, like large landed estates, were sources of considerable wealth and required protection which had to be provided by the monasteries' own manpower. Shaolin Monastery was no exception in this respect.
Shaolin Monastery's fame as a home for fighting monks dates to 605-618 AD, with the collapse of the Sui and rise of the Tang dynasty.{3} A stone tablet erected in 628 AD and still standing on the monastery grounds notes that the monks first repulsed a group of marauders, in the process of which the monastery suffered considerable damage. Then, thirteen monks helped capture Wang Shi-Chong, who was a threat to the new dynasty. This latter act saved the monastery from dissolution, which was the fate of other monasteries at the time, and paved the way for Shaolin Monastery's special association with the martial arts, although there is no record of specific martial arts until the 16th century.
During the long period from 628 to 1517, there is not a single historical record hinting that martial arts were practiced in the Shaolin Monastery; this, in spite of the parade of famous visitors who wrote down their impressions for posterity during the same period. Elsewhere, however, history records the heroic sacrifice of the monk, Zhen Bao, when he tried to defend Mount Wutai in Shanxi against a Jin force (c.1126), and quotes another monk, Wan An, of Jiangsu Province, as having said: "In a time of peril I fill the duties of a general, when peace comes I go back to being a monk."(c.l275){4} Then, in 1517, after nearly 1,000 years of silence, the Shaolin monks erected a stone tablet in honor of the spirit, King Jinnaluo, who is said to have transformed himself from an ordinary kitchen laborer into a fierce giant brandishing a flaming staff to scare off a group of marauding Red Turban rebels (c.1351).
Following this alleged incident, Shaolin Staff became a widely recognized martial art, and, one can read a number of observations of martial arts practice there, recorded by visitors to the monastery during the 16th century. Also, from the Ming to the last major destruction of monastery buildings in 1928, there was a hall dedicated to images of King Jinnaluo.
The King Jinnaluo story can still be seen in the late Qing wall mural on the right rear wall of Shaolin Monastery's White Robe Hall. Contradicting this story, however, are other official monastery records, discretely ignored by the Shaolin monks and others over the centuries, which reveal that the monastery was actually overrun at the end of the Yuan (c.1357-59), with half of its buildings destroyed and its residents scattered to other locations until it was safe to return several years later.{5}
Although difficult to prove conclusively, it appears from the above scenario that the Shaolin monks used the colorful King Jinnaluo story to deflect attention from the embarrassing reality that they had, unlike Zhen Bao and his followers on Mount Wutai, abandoned the monastery in the face of defeat. This issue appears never to have been raised until China's pioneer martial arts historian, Tang Hao (1897-1959) researched it.{6} In spite of this, even today most writings in Chinese and other languages invariably overlook this information altogether or unwittingly deflect attention away even further by citing fictitious secret society "histories" which claim the monastery was burned down once by Qing officials (another myth).
It is possible that the story of the giant with the flaming staff is merely an embellished description of an incident that actually occurred at the monastery prior to its destruction. But, regardless of the exact circumstances which gave rise to the myth, it appears to have been designed to serve as a warning to the monks to maintain an attitude of "vigilance in peacetime" as well as a psychological message to balk potential transgressors. In other words, the myth was as important as reality in defending the monastery.
That Shaolin Monastery became widely known for its Shaolin Staff technique during the Ming could perhaps best be explained as the result of the monks' bad experience at the end of the Yuan. They were determined never again to be placed in such an embarrassing situation and henceforth seriously went about their martial arts training. Their fame as "Shaolin Monk Soldiers" reached its zenith in anti-pirate operations during the mid 1500's; this fame, however, really rested on the laurels of only a few individuals and incidents, or a combination of myth and reality.
General Yu Da-You (1503-1580) visited the monastery once and was disappointed with what he saw, so he selected a couple of young monks to accompany him in the field, receive intensive training, and return to raise the standards of their compatriots.{7} Cheng Zong-You (1561-?), who wrote illustrated manuals on staff, spear, Japanese sword, and crossbow, claimed to have spent 10 years studying staff in the monastery, but only considered the names of a couple of teachers there to be worth mentioning. One of these, the monk Hong Zhuan, was in his 80's at the time, so Cheng studied under one of Hong Zhuan's best students, Guang An.{8} Hong Zhuan's spear techniques have been preserved in Record of the Arm by Wu Shu (1611-1695). They reveal the possible influence of General Yu's visit to the monastery in their explanation of the theory of "softness" and "thrusting" or "plunging" the spear.{9}
By researching the historical circumstances around which the myth arose, rather than merely relating the myth itself, we can better understand the real role of the martial arts in Chinese society at the time. The martial arts were the weapons of the period and they were used by the military to defend China's borders, the monks of Shaolin Monastery to defend the monastery, and others for various purposes. The fame of Shaolin Staff arose from the ashes of a disastrous incident which was shunted into obscurity by the colorful myth of the giant with the flaming staff.
Notes
1. Henning, Stanley E., "The Chinese Martial Arts in Historical Perspective," Military Affairs (now Journal of Military History), December 1981, p.173.
2. Wei Shou, Wei History, Shanghai: Zhonghua Shuju, 1936, juan 114, p.6a.
3. Tang Hao, Shaolin Wudang Research (Shaolin Wudang Kao), 1930, Hong Kong: Unicorn Press, 1968.
4. Li Chi, trans., The Travel Diaries of Hsu Hsia-K'o, The Chinese University of Hong Kong, 1974, note 17, pp.253-4.
5. Matsuda Ryuji, An Outline of Chinese Martial Arts History (Zhongguo Wushu Shi Lue), trans. Lu Yan and Yan Hai, Sichuan Science and Technological Press, 1984, pp.47-51.
6. Ibid.
7. Yu Da-You, Anthology from the Hall of Uprighteousness (Zheng Qi Tang Ji), 1566, Boshanjingshe, 1934, Continuation juan 2, pp.7a-8a, 10b.
8. Cheng Zong-You, (Chong-Dou), Illustrated explanation of Shaolin Staff (Shaolin Gunfa Chanzong), c.1621, Taibei: Hualian Press, 1975, pp.2-3.
9. Wu Shu, Record of the Arm (Shou Bi Lu), in Zhihai, 1846 (1935 edition, Vol 33-40), Addended juan, pp. 8b-10a.
OP
Chiduce
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Thanks for the info! I needed clarification on this point make sure my assumption was correct as you stated about the systems being considered neigong whether they were considered hard or soft! I have been studying waigong for about 4 years now and some of the simple neigong exercises associated with the system i'am studying! This is white crane qigong! The motion studies revealed within this system has improved my understanding and abilities in kenpo tremendously! I also have been training in baguazhang for 2 and a half years. it took me 8 months to understand the theory behind the art! it has also proven to be a great learning tool in my understanding of the mechanics of motion! Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!
I am a student of Mu Dong Kung Fu for about 10 years now. The person responsible for bringing this system to the united states is Sigung Sam Sim Wong who passed away in 2001 if I remember correctly. I only met him a few times. I am interested in contacting Sanxiawuyi personally if possible. I have some questions that he might be able to answer..
Bigmoose70
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Bigmoose70
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Hi Sanxiawuyi,
I currently study a Mu Dong aka Wu dang Gong Fu. We do no high kicks, tai yi, bagua, xing-yi, or wushu. My apologies if I misspell the systems. I think the one I learn is from Fist of Wudang mountain or Fist of inner family. Not totally sure. Here is some information to share to help shed some light on what I am learning. I really like this system which is a great fit. I cannot validate everything below. This is what happens when your teacher only shares what you need to know. I understand. Anything from the information below will be most grateful.
BigMoose70
Grandmaster Wong was born in Guangzhou, China. In 1937, Taoist Monk Great-Grandmaster Ching Wan commenced training Wong in Mudong Kung Fu and shared his vast martial art and medical knowledge with this "chosen" pupil.
It was this decision that would pave the way for a life that proved most honorable and rewarding for Wong. This also ensured that the family tradition of passing down the family martial art skills to future generations would continue. A life of continuous learning, devotion, great honor and gratitude had taken course.
After completing his martial art training and graduating from Guangzhou University in Traditional Chinese Medicine, Wong went to Canada to share his vast knowledge and skills with the western world in 1959, Wong opened Mu Dong Kung Fu Club in Toronto, Ontario, Canada, on Spadina Avenue.
This school was one of the very first kung fu schools in Toronto. It was also at this time that Wong set up his free medical clinic in TCM, healing patients who sought alternative treatments for their medical conditions.
From 1961-1971, Wong was directly involved in teaching self defense and hand to hand combat to the Toronto Metropolitan Police Force. Wong also served as chief martial art instructor at the University of Toronto's Hart House from 1967-1973. As co-founder of the Canadian Kung Fu Federation, adviser to the World Kung Fu and Karate Federation, Wong played a vital role in the promotion of Chinese Martial Arts in the western world. These responsibilities took place from 1960-1991 respectively.
I currently study a Mu Dong aka Wu dang Gong Fu. We do no high kicks, tai yi, bagua, xing-yi, or wushu. My apologies if I misspell the systems. I think the one I learn is from Fist of Wudang mountain or Fist of inner family. Not totally sure. Here is some information to share to help shed some light on what I am learning. I really like this system which is a great fit. I cannot validate everything below. This is what happens when your teacher only shares what you need to know. I understand. Anything from the information below will be most grateful.
BigMoose70
Grandmaster Wong was born in Guangzhou, China. In 1937, Taoist Monk Great-Grandmaster Ching Wan commenced training Wong in Mudong Kung Fu and shared his vast martial art and medical knowledge with this "chosen" pupil.
It was this decision that would pave the way for a life that proved most honorable and rewarding for Wong. This also ensured that the family tradition of passing down the family martial art skills to future generations would continue. A life of continuous learning, devotion, great honor and gratitude had taken course.
After completing his martial art training and graduating from Guangzhou University in Traditional Chinese Medicine, Wong went to Canada to share his vast knowledge and skills with the western world in 1959, Wong opened Mu Dong Kung Fu Club in Toronto, Ontario, Canada, on Spadina Avenue.
This school was one of the very first kung fu schools in Toronto. It was also at this time that Wong set up his free medical clinic in TCM, healing patients who sought alternative treatments for their medical conditions.
From 1961-1971, Wong was directly involved in teaching self defense and hand to hand combat to the Toronto Metropolitan Police Force. Wong also served as chief martial art instructor at the University of Toronto's Hart House from 1967-1973. As co-founder of the Canadian Kung Fu Federation, adviser to the World Kung Fu and Karate Federation, Wong played a vital role in the promotion of Chinese Martial Arts in the western world. These responsibilities took place from 1960-1991 respectively.
an old thread but good information.
Thanks for the link Mograph
Thanks for the link Mograph
