Morning After Pill - This is why we SHOULD be angry

[Steve]

http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/201...proves-government-plan-for-morning-after-pill

The real reason to be angry about the new plan to make the morning after pill available OTC is that the Government is only approving ONE brand: Plan B. This essentially gives the a monopoly on the market to the exclusive manufacturer of this specific formula, Duramed Pharmaceuticals, Inc.

The cost? About $40 a pop.

What's up, free market conservatives? Doesn't this just burn your ***? The government is hand picking a company and squelching the free market.

 

[Makalakumu]

This is just how government works. Multinationals have captured the regulatory framework and lobbyists with the most money, get to crush their competition. I think its safe to say that people can't trust these agencies to tell you whether or not something is safe.

Keep this in mind when a libertarian says we have to abolish these institutions. They cannot be reformed, the corruption is too deep.

 

[ballen0351]

So as I said in the other thread the decision to make it available over the counter has less to do with medical reasons and more to do with politics.

 

[billc]

Yeah, government monopolies that help politicians extract money from people, or give them more power "burn my a**" which is why I believe in smaller government, lower taxes, and cutting government spending. Wait till it is more than just a way for your 12 year old to have sex without telling you. Wait till the government mandates which medicine you can get based solely on who donates to which politicians, or which treatments...

 

[Steve]

Yeah, government monopolies that help politicians extract money from people, or give them more power "burn my a**" which is why I believe in smaller government, lower taxes, and cutting government spending. Wait till it is more than just a way for your 12 year old to have sex without telling you. Wait till the government mandates which medicine you can get based solely on who donates to which politicians, or which treatments...

What are you talking about? I can't tell whether you agree with me or not. Does the lack of a competitive free market bother you? It should, just like the stranglehold that certain companies have over Medicare and the VA.

@ballen, It's possible that it's both, but I don't disagree that politics is certainly involved.

 

[Makalakumu]

Yeah, government monopolies that help politicians extract money from people, or give them more power "burn my a**" which is why I believe in smaller government, lower taxes, and cutting government spending. Wait till it is more than just a way for your 12 year old to have sex without telling you. Wait till the government mandates which medicine you can get based solely on who donates to which politicians, or which treatments...

You are confusing two issues and not quite understanding how liberty works here. On one hand, I think you get it that government regulation creates monopolies, it does not destroy them. However, here is a point that conservatives often miss, corporations seek these favors. This is obviously the case here. This is the collusion of corporations and government...aka fascism.

The other point you miss is the fact that the government is doing nothing by "allowing" an individual access to something. The individual is responsible for their actions, even youger individuals can be capable. The whole idea that the government is allowing people to do anything and that it will obviously lead to negative consequences smacks of socialist thought. Might as well crack out some Marx my friend.

 

[K-man]

United States
In 1999, the progestin-only Plan B (two 750 µg levonorgestrel pills) became available with a prescription. This form has been replaced by the manufacturer, Teva, with Plan B One-Step (one 1.5 mg levonorgestrel pill). In 2009, a generic version of the original two-pill version of Plan B became available, called Next Choice (manufactured by Watson).
Emergency contraception became available without prescription to men and women over 18 in 2006. As of April 2009, Plan B is available from pharmacies staffed by a licensed pharmacist to men and women 17 or older; women 16 and under require a prescription.


On April 5, 2013, Judge Edward R. Korman in Brooklyn, New York, ordered the U.S. Food and Drug Administration to make the morning-after birth control pill available to people of any age without a prescription. The order overturned a 2011 decision by Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius to require a prescription for girls under 17. Korman ordered the F.D.A. to lift any age and sale restrictions on Plan B One-Step, and its generic versions, within 30 days.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_contraceptive_availability_by_country

You guys keep blaming the Government but the truth is it was released for use by younger people on the order of a judge.

I agree that it is ludicrous that only one brand is available but I am sure that that will change. Now, I might be wrong but my reading of this means that in the US a pharmacist needs to be involved in the supply as we have in Australia. :asian:

 

[Makalakumu]

You guys keep blaming the Government but the truth is it was released for use by younger people on the order of a judge.

I agree that it is ludicrous that only one brand is available but I am sure that that will change. Now, I might be wrong but my reading of this means that in the US a pharmacist needs to be involved in the supply as we have in Australia. :asian:

Judges are part of government. Judges also regularly rule in favor of corporations where they have conflicts of interest. For example, Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas worked for Biotech Giant Monsanto and was critical in writing many opinions that allow this corporation to abuse people's property rights.

So, the principle really is the same. All branches of government are open to influence and abuse and all of them get used in this fashion.

 

[K-man]

Judges are part of government. Judges also regularly rule in favor of corporations where they have conflicts of interest. For example, Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas worked for Biotech Giant Monsanto and was critical in writing many opinions that allow this corporation to abuse people's property rights.

So, the principle really is the same. All branches of government are open to influence and abuse and all of them get used in this fashion.

You guys blow me away. You tell me how great America is but almost every convention that other countries value, including judicial independence, seems to be missing or ignored.

Judicial independence is the concept that the judiciary needs to be kept away from the other branches of government. That is, courts should not be subject to improper influence from the other branches of government, or from private or partisan interests. Judicial Independence is vital and important to the idea of separation of powers.
Different countries deal with the idea of judicial independence through different means of judicial selection, or choosing judges. One way to promote judicial independence is by granting life tenure or long tenure for judges, which ideally frees them to decide cases and make rulings according to the rule of law and judicial discretion, even if those decisions are politically unpopular or opposed by powerful interests.
In many countries, the ability of the judiciary to check the legislature is enhanced by the power of judicial review. This power can be used, for example, by mandating certain action when the judiciary perceives that a branch of government is refusing to perform a constitutional duty, or by declaring laws passed by the legislature unconstitutional.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judicial_independence

What has happened in the US to cause such a sorry state of affairs, and ... please ... don't blame Obama. I'm sure it goes back some considerable time. :asian:

 

[Makalakumu]

You guys blow me away. You tell me how great America is but almost every convention that other countries value, including judicial independence, seems to be missing or ignored.

What has happened in the US to cause such a sorry state of affairs, and ... please ... don't blame Obama. I'm sure it goes back some considerable time. :asian:

It goes back far before Obama. Our history is ripe with this kind of abuse, but the propaganda has been effective.

 

[pgsmith]

You guys blow me away. You tell me how great America is but almost every convention that other countries value, including judicial independence, seems to be missing or ignored.
What has happened in the US to cause such a sorry state of affairs, and ... please ... don't blame Obama. I'm sure it goes back some considerable time. :asian:

Unfortunately, money has happened. The number of extremely rich has grown, and they've gotten to the point that they no longer care what the general run of people think. They control all of the media outlets, and can spin whatever is reported to suit their interests. It used to be all done in back rooms and under the table. Now, it doesn't really matter who knows what goes on.

My thoughts on it anyway.

 

[crushing]

You guys keep blaming the Government but the truth is it was released for use by younger people on the order of a judge.

I agree that it is ludicrous that only one brand is available but I am sure that that will change. Now, I might be wrong but my reading of this means that in the US a pharmacist needs to be involved in the supply as we have in Australia. :asian:

It was my understanding from the news reports that the single dose, Plan B One-Step, option (over the multi-dose competitor product) was made available because of the greatly decreased likelihood of the product being incorrectly administered by younger people.

 

[K-man]

It was my understanding from the news reports that the single dose, Plan B One-Step, option (over the multi-dose competitor product) was made available because of the greatly decreased likelihood of the product being incorrectly administered by younger people.

Doesn't make a lot of sense as the alternative is two tablets taken at the same time. :asian:

 

[crushing]

Doesn't make a lot of sense as the alternative is two tablets taken at the same time. :asian:

It wouldn't make a lot of sense, but according to the instructions for the pills that the judge didn't allow the second tablet is to be taken 12 hours later.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newswe...s-wondered-about-emergency-contraception.html

 

[K-man]

It wouldn't make a lot of sense, but according to the instructions for the pills that the judge didn't allow the second tablet is to be taken 12 hours later.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newswe...s-wondered-about-emergency-contraception.html

From your reference:

You don't need to take the pills 12 hours apart


Plan B comes with two pills and instructions to take “the second tablet …12 hours after the first dose.” Not a problem if you get the pharmacy at 9 a.m., but a little more inconvenient if your schedule—sexual or otherwise—finds you in need of emergency contraception (EC) after noon. Trussell assures us that you needn't stay up all night or set your alarm for some ungodly hour: Plan B is just as effective when both pills are taken at once.


In fact, the new Plan B One-Step has the same active ingredients of two Plan B pills—1.5mg of a progestin called levonorgestrel—in one tablet. Most EC sold in other countries is a single-pill product. So why have we been advised to space Plan B 12 hours apart? Because it was originally tested as a two-pill product with lower levonorgestrel doses. “Then people said, maybe we could put them all in one, but the danger there is that you might have more side effects,” says Trussell. “But it showed no side effects and the efficacy was the same.”

When they first came out it was given as two separate doses to reduce the chance of nausea. However, because most people had no side effects and to increase patient compliance they changed the recommendation to both at once and since then the product has been repackaged as a single dose. :asian:

 

[oftheherd1]

You are confusing two issues and not quite understanding how liberty works here. On one hand, I think you get it that government regulation creates monopolies, it does not destroy them. However, here is a point that conservatives often miss, corporations seek these favors. This is obviously the case here. This is the collusion of corporations and government...aka fascism.

The other point you miss is the fact that the government is doing nothing by "allowing" an individual access to something. The individual is responsible for their actions, even youger individuals can be capable. The whole idea that the government is allowing people to do anything and that it will obviously lead to negative consequences smacks of socialist thought. Might as well crack out some Marx my friend.

I agree it is getting to the point that lobbyists (and the companies that pay them) are more in control of our country than our government. But your second paragraph I can't agree with personally. There must be some age below which children cannot be trusted to make their decisions without adult guidance. Otherwise, why not turn them loose to progress on their own as soon as they are weaned?

You guys blow me away. You tell me how great America is but almost every convention that other countries value, including judicial independence, seems to be missing or ignored.

What has happened in the US to cause such a sorry state of affairs, and ... please ... don't blame Obama. I'm sure it goes back some considerable time. :asian:

As said below, money has become too important. But really, are you telling me that most other countries have no problems? Then truly, we in the USA have much to learn. One wonders how we lasted this long.

Unfortunately, money has happened. The number of extremely rich has grown, and they've gotten to the point that they no longer care what the general run of people think. They control all of the media outlets, and can spin whatever is reported to suit their interests. It used to be all done in back rooms and under the table. Now, it doesn't really matter who knows what goes on.

My thoughts on it anyway.

Certainly money has happened. I think the reason that is so, is because campaign financing has become so expensive. From the time a politician is elected, he must begin planning for his next election. More importantly, how he will acquire enough money to finance it. That has to change so politicians will become at least a little more inclined to listen to the people who elected them.

It was my understanding from the news reports that the single dose, Plan B One-Step, option (over the multi-dose competitor product) was made available because of the greatly decreased likelihood of the product being incorrectly administered by younger people.

Do you think that those too young to read and follow instructions should be allowed to purchase something that might be harmful without adult supervision?

 

[crushing]

Do you think that those too young to read and follow instructions should be allowed to purchase something that might be harmful without adult supervision?

My opinion has no bearing on the court's decision. However, I think I would trust them more with a pill than I would with a pregnancy.

Plan B or Plan B One-Step is considered safe for most women. Potential side effects of Plan B or Plan B One-Step include:

nausea
abdominal pain
fatigue
headache
menstrual changes
dizziness
breast tenderness
vomiting
diarrhea

How do you think the "harmfulness" of the pill compares to the dangers of a pregnancy?

 

[Steve]

My opinion has no bearing on the court's decision. However, I think I would trust them more with a pill than I would with a pregnancy.



How do you think the "harmfulness" of the pill compares to the dangers of a pregnancy?

Comparing that list of potential side effects to most of the drugs we're being sold as safe, that's pretty darned benign.

 

[K-man]

As said below, money has become too important. But really, are you telling me that most other countries have no problems? Then truly, we in the USA have much to learn. One wonders how we lasted this long.

Mate, I can only speak for Australia, although I don't see guys like Suke and Cirdan etc complaining endlessly about the situation in their countries. We hear how America is the bastion of the Free World, the pillars of democracy, the leaders of industry and finance, innovators in medicine and healthcare, providers of quality university education, the people guaranteed their rights by the US Constitution and the home of the free. Every four years we are reminded of America's greatness as you clean up the Gold at the Olympics ... then you read the posts on MT.

Let's look at what this forum has given me and you tell me if I have it wrong.

As the bastion of the Free World I remember, I think Bill Mattocks, saying if America needs something and another country won't give it then you will just take it. I really considered that and thought, yes, he is probably right and it is that attitude to other countries right to govern and enjoy their freedoms that creates the attitude towards America from other countries that very few other countries would experience. Back in the 80s the US did some terrible things to Australia's export market.

Democracy? The impression of America I had was that the US was one of the great examples of democracy in the modern world. I mentioned that something wasn't democratic a couple of years back and was hammered. I was quickly informed that America wasn't a democracy but a 'Representative Republic'. So you spend a year going through primaries etc with all the hoopla that culminates in people being elected to represent you, in a disproportionate way, who seem to be more influenced by big business, banks and industry that their own constituents. Other countries such as the UK, Canada and Australia who embrace the Westminster system of Government don't seem to have the same problem. Why? We are all common stock.

Leaders of Industry and Finance? The GFC was caused by dishonesty and greed especially in the region of lower Manhatten. Billions of dollars lost around the world and many people's lives destroyed. The people that caused it to happen should have been jailed. What happened? They were given huge bonuses and moved on to greener pastures. Would that have happened in other countries? In China they would have been executed.

Medicine and healthcare? Yes, your drug companies are among the best in the world at producing fantastic drugs that have the potential to better the lives of millions across the world. But that comes at a cost. To provide those medicines to the people requires the help of governments. Britain and Australia, amongst others do their best to provide many of those products to their people at a reasonable price though their National Health schemes and the same goes for medical and hospital care. Does that happen in the US? How many threads are there condemning 'Obamacare'?

Education? Countries across the world are providing free education to their young people to give them the opportunity to live their lives to the fullest and enhance the societies in which they live. It seems to be working fine in most places. But, what to I read on MT. Your kids are being brainwashed! Home schooling is better because the young are being exposed to the wrong information and unable to make their own judgement of right and wrong. Certainly, in Australia, we don't have that issue. We have the problem of getting more funding to the schools to provide an even better system of education.

American politics? Need I say anything. Your system has been unworkable for how long? In Australia, we have just endured the worst government I can remember, with one exception about 35 years ago, and although it ha been bad, it has still functioned, albeit with difficulty. Hopefully that will be remedied at the next election which is due in three months. Our politicians are not even into campaign mode yet!

Home of the Free? All I read about is how you are losing your rights. We don't even have a Bill of Rights and I can't complain about loss of freedom. I can pretty much do as I please within a civilised society.

The US Constitution? Seems to be a document that is over 200 years old and parts of it that have never been changed to embrace a modern society, are being relied on to legislate such issues as gun control in an increasingly violent society.

So money may well be your problem. God knows you are printing enough of it. How many Trillion is the debt? Other countries have problems but not anywhere near the problems I read about on MT in the US. Does the US have much to learn? Sure. Every country has much to learn from others. Some countries just don't want to look outside their own borders! Could the US learn from other countries? Of course. The question is do you want to? :asian:


Sorry if this is a bit off topic but you asked the question.