More from the "religion of Peace"

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billc

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http://archive.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=22626

from this comes a description of the "right" hang on while I get it

some of it:
The biggest mistake that has been made by psychologists (e.g. Altemeyer 1981 & 1988) and others, however, is to identify conservative motivation with opposition to change. Obviously, from Cromwell to Reagan and Thatcher, change has never bothered "conservatives" one bit — but preservation of their rights and liberties from governments that would take those rights and liberties away always has. THAT is what has always made a "conservative" — and it still does.

It might be noted, however, that, centuries earlier, the parliamentary leaders of England — led by Fairfax, Cromwell etc. — did something similar to the Hispanic generals of the 20th century. Faced by an attempt on the part of the Stuart tyrant to abrogate their traditional rights, powers and liberties, they resorted to military means to overthrow the threat. There is no reason to argue that democracy cannot or must not use military means to defend itself or that Leftists or anyone else must be granted exclusive rights to the use of force and violence.

A Conservative Revolution
And the parliamentarians who were responsible for beheading King Charles I in 1649 were perfectly articulate about why. They felt that Charles had attempted to destroy the ancient English governmental system or "constitution" and that he had tried to take away important rights and individual liberties that the English had always enjoyed — liberty from the arbitrary power of Kings, a right to representation in important decisions and a system of counterbalanced and competing powers rather than an all-powerful central government. It is to them that we can look for the first systematic statements of conservative ideals — ideals that persevere to this day. And they were both conservatives (wishing to conserve traditional rights and arrangements) and revolutionaries!
So right back in the 17th century we had the apparent paradox of "conservatives" (the parliamentary leaders — later to be referred to as "Whigs") being prepared to undertake most radical change (deposing monarchy) in order to restore treasured traditional rights and liberties and to rein in overweening governmental power. So Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan were not at all breakaways from the conservatism of the past. They had very early and even more determined predecessors. Nobody who knew history should have been surprised by the Reagan/Thatcher "revolution". And it was in deliberate tribute to the parliamentarians of Cromwell's day and their immediate successors that two of the most influential conservative theorists prior to Reagan and Thatcher both described themselves as "Old Whigs" — Burke (1790) and Hayek (1944). Hayek described Whig ideals as "the only set of ideals that has consistently opposed all arbitrary power" (Hayek, 1960).

The conservatism I am referring to is the modern day American conservative position of supporting individual liberty, the bill of rights, the American constitution, racial equality, freedom of religion, speech...
 

billc

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The biggest mistake that has been made by psychologists (e.g. Altemeyer 1981 & 1988) and others, however, is to identify conservative motivation with opposition to change. Obviously, from Cromwell to Reagan and Thatcher, change has never bothered "conservatives" one bit — but preservation of their rights and liberties from governments that would take those rights and liberties away always has. THAT is what has always made a "conservative" — and it still does.

I believe that the goal of radical islam is to "take away" the rights of individuals,

-to worship as they please
-the rights of homosexuals to live
-the rights of women to "feel sunlight on their faces"
-the right to a seperation of church and state...
 

Sukerkin

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Where has this absurd notion that the Nazi's were socialists popped up from? Surely not just because they used the word in the title of the party?

Last time I looked they were Fascists; totalitarian, suppressive of opposition and corporatist you know, a bit like Republicans :p.

Now there is an argument that can be made that Soviet Russia was fascist rather than communist but to try and argue that fascism is left rather than right wing is a novel turn in the field of political definitions.

A clean definition of fascism that I've seen is "A political regime, having totalitarian aspirations, ideologically based on centralized government, government control of business, repression of criticism or opposition, a leader cult and exalting the state and/or religion above individual rights"

I am sure that there are some elements in there might be seized upon to prove that the fascism==left wing view is the correct one. However, if you equate fascism with socialism then what you are showing is a deficiency in political understanding rather than an actual connection.
 

billc

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Sukerkin, with respect, I would go into this but I guess we would need another thread to really sink into it. Yes. Nazis were socialists, and facism and nazism and communism are all different types of socialism.
 

Sukerkin

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Aye, you're right it is a deflection of the thread - my apologies. It just leapt out and ambushed me when I was browsing through and my fingers trembled into life :eek:.

So I shall not add any more to the diversion. Please, just read some actual political studies rather than repeat from the manual of the 'party faithful'. Wiki is not the best source in and of itself but it can lead you to reliable references:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_spectrum

http://www.buzzle.com/articles/socialism-vs-fascism.html
 
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billc

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to save me time, you could look up my other, quite substantial posts on the topic of nazism, fascism, and communism. There is a lot of it and I stand by it. I have strayed a little in this thread and don't want to get moderater attention anymore than I may have already. I look forward to a friendly discussion with you, on the topic.
 

billc

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Sukerkin, I will meet you on the field of your choosing, seconds are not required and I will respond when I have time. good fortune to you.
 

granfire

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Where has this absurd notion that the Nazi's were socialists popped up from? Surely not just because they used the word in the title of the party?

Last time I looked they were Fascists; totalitarian, suppressive of opposition and corporatist you know, a bit like Republicans :p.

Now there is an argument that can be made that Soviet Russia was fascist rather than communist but to try and argue that fascism is left rather than right wing is a novel turn in the field of political definitions.

A clean definition of fascism that I've seen is "A political regime, having totalitarian aspirations, ideologically based on centralized government, government control of business, repression of criticism or opposition, a leader cult and exalting the state and/or religion above individual rights"

I am sure that there are some elements in there might be seized upon to prove that the fascism==left wing view is the correct one. However, if you equate fascism with socialism then what you are showing is a deficiency in political understanding rather than an actual connection.


LOL, awe, now where have you been these past 4 month? :)
 

MJS

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Folks,

Can we have some civil discussion here please. We have 2 reported posts already. I'd like to avoid anymore.

Thanks.
 

Blade96

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Hi blade 96, how are you doing?

i'm fine and how are you?

I'm just giggling like a schoolgirl everytime you bring your socialists into a thread cause they seem to be your favorite topic hehehe :) I just find it funny. :) and cute...you seem to like your socialists hah :p
 
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Bob Hubbard

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Still waiting for someone to explain to me how I can tell the bad 10M Muslims from the 1.69B good Muslims.
 
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Twin Fist

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thats just it, it isnt easy. They could live here for YEARS and you would never know what they truely felt, since their book tells them that it is ok to lie to an infidel since they dont count as human anyway....

only smart thing you can do is stop ignoring the threat and look at the world through wise eyes
 

Ken Morgan

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Still waiting for someone to explain to me how I can tell the bad 10M Muslims from the 1.69B good Muslims.

The same way you can tell the bad Christians from the good, the bad Jainists from the good, the bad men from the good men and the bad bacon from the good.

Oh wait…there is no such thing as bad bacon, all bacon is good!
 

shesulsa

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Same way you tell the good priests from the bad priests, the good men from the bad men, the good kids from the bad kids, the good dogs from the bad dogs, etcetera.

[sarcasm]Kill them all and let God sort them out.[/sarcasm]
 

elder999

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[sarcasm]Kill them all and let God sort them out.[/sarcasm]

The supposed origin of that phrase is quite apropos, actually:

According to the Cistercian writer Caesar of Heisterbach, one of the leaders of the Crusader army, at the siege of Béziers in 1209, when asked by a Crusader how to distinguish the Cathars from the Catholics, Arnaud Amalric answered:
Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius (Kill them all. For the Lord knoweth them that are His.).
This is the origin of the modern phrase, "Kill them all and let God sort them out."

:lfao:
 
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