Modern Arnis Umbrella Organization?

[Cruentus]

Kuntawman...

What you described is more of a "working with" rather then a "working under" in my opinion. And, I see no problem with that!

I will say, as Chad explained, that I am very cynical when it comes to organizations for the reasons he explained. "What's you motive" or "what are you trying to take from me" is my first questions to someone who wants to "lead" me anywhere.

I think that it would be nice to have a "Modern Arnis Council" where leaders of the art from the PI and around the world could meet either yearly, or even bi-yearly, to discuss and come to agreements regarding the art. And of course, elders and seniors would and should be respected.

The idea of a "Council" rather then 1 umbrella organization seems to fit in with what Kuntawman described. Perhaps someday we will get to that point.

 

[DoctorB]

Originally posted by arnisador
What does 'dakilang guro' mean?

I understand 'punong guro' to mean something like 'teacher of teachers'.

"Punong Guro" actually translates as "Senior Teacher". A PG can be viewed as being 2nd to the system GM or perhaps the GM.

Dr. Barber

 

[DoctorB]

Originally posted by PAUL
Kuntawman...

What you described is more of a "working with" rather then a "working under" in my opinion. And, I see no problem with that!

I will say, as Chad explained, that I am very cynical when it comes to organizations for the reasons he explained. "What's you motive" or "what are you trying to take from me" is my first questions to someone who wants to "lead" me anywhere.

I think that it would be nice to have a "Modern Arnis Council" where leaders of the art from the PI and around the world could meet either yearly, or even bi-yearly, to discuss and come to agreements regarding the art. And of course, elders and seniors would and should be respected.

The idea of a "Council" rather then 1 umbrella organization seems to fit in with what Kuntawman described. Perhaps someday we will get to that point.

Paul,

Please excuse me if I also seem to be just a bit cynical. Here we are talking about a "Modern Arnis Council" when a good number of people can't even get their heads wrapped around the notion of a "Symposium" where ideas, techniques and training methods are going to be exchanged.

I have no doubt that there are some very good to excellent Modern Arnis Players in the Philippines regardless of whether or not Professor went back and conducted some training courses;
however, my own arnis program is set up to meet American needs and cultural conditions. I designed my program to fit the needs of my students in the USA in generaal and New York State in particular.

My program would not necessarily fit into the larger Filipino culture and most certinly it would not fit into some sub-cultural settings. This is not a matter of good or bad. It is a matter of reality and cultural needs.

Would I be willing to train with and learn more from Filipino instructors? Yes I would. The other side of the question is
would these same Filipino Instructors be willing to study and learn from me? That question is one that I can not answer.

I do know this, when I first formed the Independent Filipino Escrima/Arnis Associates and opened my website in 1995, I always had problems with some Filipinos who resented me
using the word "Filipino" in my title. I used that word to represent a collective acknowledgement of my Filipino Instructors, Remy Presas, Bobby Taboada and Eddie Lastra. In 1997, I removed "Filipino" from the organizational title because I got tired of answering nasty e-mails accusing me of being a "Greedy American white boy...

Dieter, you can go where ever you want and join as you will, but nationality and paper rank is not what impresses me. I look for skill, teaching ability, personality and manners. I am not opposed to a Modern Arnis Council, but I would have to see how it was organized and what the by-laws stated.

Dr. Barber

 

[Cruentus]

I understand your cynicism;

I am cynical too. Remember, I did say "someday."

Oh....and the "greedy american white boy" comment was one of the funniest things I've heard all day! :rofl: :rofl:

 

[thekuntawman]

Originally posted by arnisador
What does 'dakilang guro' mean?

I understand 'punong guro' to mean something like 'teacher of teachers'.

dakilang is like a well respected man, i heard ernesto presas say you should not call the oldest men, just a guro, but to show more respect, he says dakilang guro.

 

[thekuntawman]

Originally posted by DoctorB
In 1997, I removed "Filipino" from the organizational title because I got tired of answering nasty e-mails accusing me of being a "Greedy American white boy...



Dr. Barber

so i was right about you, docB, you are greedy

 

[Dieter]

Dr. B

Dieter, you can go where ever you want and join as you will, but nationality and paper rank is not what impresses me. I look for skill, teaching ability, personality and manners.

Hi Jerome,

I don´t know if I might misinterpret your sentence, but why this agression?

I just try to develop a vision, how to make Modern Arnis a stronger by coming closer together, where I see the symposium as a good step in the right direction, and not making it weaker by splitting up more and more.

Why not dreaming or brainstorming different possibilities or even dreaming the impossible?


Regards


Dieter

 

[Dan Anderson]

Originally posted by DoctorB
...I got tired of answering nasty e-mails accusing me of being a "Greedy American white boy...

Dr. Barber

Jerome,

I thought you are american?

Yours,
Dan

 

[DoctorB]

Originally posted by thekuntawman
so i was right about you, docB, you are greedy

To put things into perspective for you, Kuntawman, I DO NOT CHARGE the students are Erie Community College for their lessons. They pay the college tuition and I am salaried at the college. I do charge my off campus club memebrs - all 9 of them - the prevailing rate for this area. If I were to rely on the club to eat well daily, I would be starving right now.

When your fellow countrymen accused me of being both greedy and a typical American White Boy, they were writing blindly, as well as showing a great deal of arrogance, stupidity and bias.
If I were to judge all Filipinos by the standards shown through those e-mail, I would have nothing to do with you or anyone else who is Filipino. You have come very close to joining that group of people, regardless of nationality, religion, ethnicity or race, whom I have placed on my list to be ignored.

We have exchanged some emails in the past and we have both agreed and disagreed on different matters. That is fine with me and in the spirit of idea excahnges. But you do not know me or my circumstances well enough to make a substanial case for alleging greed. Be much more careful in your public comments to me.

I have never branded you in any manner and I fully expect the same level of respect in return. As I posted elsewhere on another thread, I judge people by their skills, personality and manners. You are sorely lacking in the third area with your quoted remark above. And wasn't it one of my instructors, Billy Bryant, who got you back into your family and cultural arts.... was he a greedy American White Boy, also?

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.

 

[Dan Anderson]

Originally posted by DoctorB
And wasn't it Billy Bryant who got you back into your family and cultural arts.... was he a greedy American White Boy?

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.

Jerome,

By the fact you haven't answered my post above, I have to conclude that you aren't American.

Extrapolating from my above sentence, I will conclude that Billy Bryant is not American as well.

I'm crushed. :uhoh:

Sorrowfully Yours,
Dan Anderson

PS - for any of you who may be concerned by this recent turn of events and new discoveries, I am American.

 

[thekuntawman]

docB,

when i said you were greedy, i was joking, thats why i put the smily thing. i dont think that about you at all. i also dont think you are a "white boy" sorry for that confusion.

but no, billy didnt get me "back" into the philippine martial arts. but he did show me how popular they are, because at the time i met him, i was more interested in learning kung fu and competition fighting. when he convince me to start teaching the filipino arts, i was teaching point fighting in a commercial karate school. but thanks for reminding me, that i almost forgot it was billy bryant who convinced me to open a philippine martial arts school.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by moromoro
hi dieter



yes, i think that should be as a sign of respect that practitioners shold look to their seniors in the art.

if theres one thing people should take away from PILIPINO culture in learning eskrima, it is respect to our seniors. This is very evident in our culture.

thanks

terry

Terry,

I am very confused about this comment.

I have always tried to show respect to those older, an those who have trained longer or both. :asian:

And, I believe it is ok to disagree respectfully, which I have with many. I respect The Kuntawman a lot for our disagreements, for it has enlightened me, and I have also been able to make a point or two to him and others as well.


Yet, I believe that I am older than you are. I believe that I have been training in some form of art longer than you also. As has many on this board. Yet, you state that your intention was to join this board to insult people and to insult Senior and Masters as a goal. You also state that fighting is the end all, and teaching does not matter, yet as Dan Anderson has stated, then how do the fighters learn? How do they learn the respect? It is just born into them?

I have never one said a bad thing about GM Navarro or GM Abrian. I have mentioned that the term moro can have more than one meaning. And you did state that it was a word of Joy and Pride for you and your instructor, I accepted this.

Yet, I do feel you have accepted, this poor little round eye or other round eyes, to have talent, skill, or knowledge.

So, when you spout comments like this, it is hard for me to believe that you are being honest.

If the Kuntawman or others were to say this then I would believe them, and respect them for their words, even if we have differed in opinion. For in their actions even in the differences, they have also shown respect.

One of the first things I discussed with Manong (GM) Ted Buot was if his children had trained and if they were still training.

From your attitude, posts and from other people who I have met I can see that many a Filipino is not happy with a Round eye White boy studying your art or an art of the PI. So, this was not meant to be dis-respectful just a comment, on how I see things, and how yours and others comments come across. Do I think you will change? Nope. Do I care for you to change, maybe a little. Just show some respect as you yourself stated, even if it is the respect to agree to disagree.


:asian:

 

[Dan Anderson]

Terry,
Could you supply us with some information? How old are you, how long have you been training and in what arts?

Thanks,
Dan Anderson

 

[moromoro]

hi Rich


Yes i will try to explain this. It is always good to show this kind of respect, and in our culture this respect is always reserved to older people. If your both relatively young theres no need to show any kind of special respect due to age and seniority only the common courtesy of respect each other as individuals....

I have always tried to show respect to those older, an those who have trained longer or both.

this is a good attitude to have......i believe this is the way also.
But unfortunately in the FMA (in the philippines anyway) there is not much respecting going on between styles,,,
look rich i dont care where your from as long as you got the right intentions in the FMA.....


hi dan

yes i have been training in eskrima since 1986 actually this month marks my 17 years in eskrima......To this day i still train 4- 5 times a week with GM Navarro one on one..

i have been training in muay thai since 1994 non stop to this day..
i train with Dan Blake (a old friend) who is also the assistant trainer of MARK HUNT K1 Champ 2001 (look at hunt vs Crocop fight last year he was in the corner)

Also since 1994 non stop to this day i started training in MMA with a japanese instructor who has been in several MMA fights in japan (known as submission arts wrestling) that was along with my jujutsu as well since 1994......
i have always trained with the sole goal to improve my fighting ability only......
i am also learning KULAM as well....(just recently)
Yes Dan i will be 24 on the day of the saints this year nov1...
get in touch with me

[email protected]

 

[Dan Anderson]

Terry,

Thanks for the data. Now I can tell why you're so outspoken. You are also a Scorpio (mine is on the 18th of November).

Yours,
Dan

 

[DoctorB]

Originally posted by thekuntawman
docB,

when i said you were greedy, i was joking, thats why i put the smily thing. i dont think that about you at all. i also dont think you are a "white boy" sorry for that confusion.

but no, billy didnt get me "back" into the philippine martial arts. but he did show me how popular they are, because at the time i met him, i was more interested in learning kung fu and competition fighting. when he convince me to start teaching the filipino arts, i was teaching point fighting in a commercial karate school. but thanks for reminding me, that i almost forgot it was billy bryant who convinced me to open a philippine martial arts school.

Sorry, Kuntawman, too many post read and too many hot button issues. My errors. Thanks for the kick to the head.

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by moromoro
hi Rich

. . .

But unfortunately in the FMA (in the philippines anyway) there is not much respecting going on between styles,,,

Hi Terry,

Thank you for the reply.

Yes, I understand the fact that the different styles have different respect levels for each other. Maybe this accounts for some of the different stories or histories told here in the WEST, by the Filipino Masters themsleves.

Originally posted by moromoro

look rich i dont care where your from as long as you got the right intentions in the FMA.....

Terry, this makes sense, yet with your comment about ALL USA or Western FMA being sub standard, and only by going to the PI can we learn the 'Real' Art or the real deal you make it sound like, if you are not a Filipino training in the PI then you are nothing.

Now, if you are a proud nationalist, and want to scream at the top of your lungs about your Culture and heritage and arts, ten this is fine. Yet, if you scream and insult others at the same time as opposed to bringing forth strengths, but only pointing out negaitives, can cause a bad impression. Do, I personally care what you think of me? Nope, yet I do try to present myself as a positive member and to allow others their point of view especially if it differs from my own. Yet, I do not stanf still and take the constant barrage of insults and implied threats. These are the issues that cause my concern.

Continue to bring forth your opinion, just do make it sound like it is the only opinion of the FMA community.

Now, as to my intentions, I intend to teach and make sure my student(s) learn the real deal and nothing held back. If at some day, I gain the knowledge and respect for others to call me a master of the art, I will hopefully live up to their expectations.

Enjoy your Training - I enjoy mine, it is in my blood, as it is in yours. It takes a special type of person to train all the time and to go through the pain and frustration to learn and continue to improve. I believe i am one, and I expect that most of us here also fall into that catagory.

Peace

 

[moromoro]

hi rich

you are a proud nationalist, and want to scream at the top of your lungs about your Culture and heritage and arts, ten this is fine

iam not a nationalist, it is hard to be when you are from the Philippines.... all the different language groups and slightly different customs in each group....

Continue to bring forth your opinion, just do make it sound like it is the only opinion of the FMA community.

i will do, byt i never realised that i made myself sound like it was the only opinion in the FMA... thats quite a big statement......

Enjoy your Training - I enjoy mine, it is in my blood, as it is in yours. It takes a special type of person to train all the time and to go through the pain and frustration to learn and continue to improve. I believe i am one, and I expect that most of us here also fall into that catagory.

ohh yes the pain we gotta love the pain. although it doesnt happen too often anymore last month while sparring with GM Navarro real sticks garrote y daga he poped my middle finger fore knuckle i dropped my stick and looked at my hand, didnt make a fuss just said "****" he came towards me i thought he was going to look at it but the next thing i see was the stick comming for my head!!!! lucky i never dropped the smaller stick....

its things like these which make me love training....you know the feeling we all do........


peace

terry