Modern Arnis Succession Part2

[Celadora]

The changes to the IMAP webpage just crack me up. So now Dr. Schea has ¨retired,¨ making Delaney head grandmaster be deault??? And where are the names of the other 5 Masters o Tapi-Tapi? Suddenly the people in charge of the organization under Mr. Delaney were never any of the 7 originally listed to be in charge of future instruction under Professor Presas. I have no intention to bash anyone, but I´ve got the feeling there´s a lot more to this than any of us know...

 

[ARNIS PRINCESS]

It doesn't surprise me to see the politics in Modern Arnis after the death of Professor Presas. History repeats itself. We have seen this many times in other systems, probably the most noted was Parker's Kenpo. The top person of the group passes on and the rest of the people scramble for power.

Now we have two IMAF groups. Eveyone knows about Delaney, but now we have the rest of the MOTTs with their own IMAF group. The only difference, at a quick glance, is that one is punctuated and the other isn't. Now the IMAF(,) group claims that Delaney has fired the members and given them no choice but to form this new group. I find this somewhat ironic seeing that this is what Datu Hartman claimed happened in his situation. Could it be that Hartman was named as Presas' successor? And after the group got rid of Datu Hartman, they turned on themselves?

 

[bloodwood]

This sounds like the script from gladiator. Looks closer to the truth every day.:ninja: :samurai:

 

[Guro Harold]

From: ProfessorPresas.com (JD):

"Jamil Tarkhani's IMAF EVENT in Germany attended by 1,100 People!"

- Any Thoughts?

 

[Icepick]

"Jamil Tarkhani's IMAF EVENT in Germany attended by 1,100 People!"

My guess, martial arts expo with 5 minute modern arnis demo. I get invites to many Modern Arnis events, but I didn't hear about this one, did you?

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Mod Note - This was split off the original thread. please continue from here, with the air a bit clearer, I hope.

:asian:

 

[Celadora]

About the Germany expo:
I was under the impression that Germany and all of Europe were under the region of one of the MOTTs, Gaby Roloff. I wonder if she was there and what she has to say about the event?

Another question: do you believe the split in the IMAF has anything to do with the regions of the US that leaders are from? How will this effect your camps, seminars, etc?

 

[Datu Tim Hartman]

If you look at the picture you can see that it is some kind of celebration. If you look carefully you will see a man in a tux, a lighting system and more than one style of martial arts uniforms. This was most likely a mixed martial arts demo. Most likely Gaby was not there. She is a part time martial artist and knowing Jamil, he probably invited the commercial school owners only.

As far as Gaby being the European rep this would be for the IMAF, inc. The WMAA has several schools in Europe. I will be on tour the next two weeks in Denmark and Sweden. We have stayed out of Germany due to the political situation with the existing groups there. If they would be interested associating themselves with us we would consider it, but at the moment I don't think it would be in our best interest to try to start things there.

:asian:

 

[Guro Harold]

I do believe that this was Jamil's event. ProfessorPresas.com does mention two November seminars hosted by Jamil. It seems that he is aligned with JD's IMAF while Gaby is a MOTT in the IMAF, INC.

Nevertheless, if it is true that there were 1,100 people exposed to Modern Arnis at one time, that would be impressive. Maybe eventually, it will be posted on their news section.

 

[Datu Tim Hartman]

It may have been hosted by Jamil and Modern Arnis in it, but I doubt that it was an IMAF event. Events like that are very common in Europe. When I taught in England last year there was over 1500 people at the AKKS European championships. The black belt class I taught had over 60 people in it alone. This would have been listed on my site had it not happen the weekend before we took Remy to the hospital in Germany.

As far as Jamil hosting Jeff D. goes, that was only while Remy was still alive. If you look at the events page on Jeff's site I do not see a return visit scheduled. If you look at Jamil's site you will see Gaby's name on several pages.

If you go to this site it has pictures of the event. I didn't see any Modern Arnis photos and only see the art mentioned in the text. I don't read German but it doesn't seam that the art was a big role at the event. Check the site for your self.

http://www.sinawali.de/html/aktuell.html

:asian:

 

[Mao]

The Germs. wll do what they will. I don't think, by the way, that the MOTTs forming a group means that they turned on themselves. That sounded mean spirited. I'm hoping it was not. Tim did his thing for his reasons, many of which I know. He and we are more alike than some mind. Thats a good thing.

 

[DPRESAS]

SEMINARS ARE NOW POSTED AT WWW.MODERNARNIS.COM

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by DPRESAS
SEMINARS ARE NOW POSTED AT WWW.MODERNARNIS.COM

I hope that more U.S. locations will be scheduled! Thanks for letting us know.

I note that the WWW.MODERNARNIS.COM web site graciously provides a link to this forum under its Links page.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Cool. :asian:

Checked the site out...it's coming together nicely.

 

[Guro Harold]

It took awhile it appears for JD's website to update the news however below is a direct excerpt from www.professorpresas.com:
[Excerpt begins ->
On October 27, 2001, Jamil Tarkhani, International Modern Arnis Federation African Director and European Competition and Tournament Direstor hosted the first annual Kampfsport Festival in Tornesch, Germany. fhe festival featured performances and demonstrations by top martial artists and demo teams from around the world including Jeff Delaney, Grandmaster of Modern Arnis and successor to Professor Remy Presas...
<- Excerpt concludes]

 

[Mao]

It would be nice if some of us could go to these places so people could see a good representation of modern arnis.

 

[Datu Tim Hartman]

That is wishful thinking. Although I'm not entirley convinced that Jamil knows whos who in the Modern Arnis world yet. Like Parker's Kenpo, it will take a while for people to know who's the sh*t and who's just plain sh*ty! Germany had a lot of problems in Modern Arnis before Remy's death, I can just imagine how bad it could get.


:asian:

 

[Mao]

I suppose that it will depend on the character of the people over there. It sounds, from experience with a person who visited my school (as you know), that alot remains to be seen in terms of how people get along.

 

[Dieter]

Hi everybody,
since Germany is mentioned several times in this thread I think it is time for me to post.
For I am not too well known in the US, let me first introduce myself so that you know who I am. My name is Dieter Knüttel and since 1985 I am the chief-instructor of the German Arnis Association (DAV) which is one of the largest FMA organisations in Europe. We practice Modern Arnis in the DAV. I started Arnis in 1978 under Jackson Cui Brocka the same Master, that Datu Kelly Worden has started his FMA career with. I have been to the Philippines several times, staying about 3 months for training each time.
We have been with Ernesto Presas from 1983 to 1993 and with the Professor from 1994 to his death. I introduced Modern Arnis in Germany in 1983 and later in Denmark, Sweden, Norway and Switzerland. I have taught seminars in these countries plus in France, England, Austria, Spain, Australia and the in the USA. I still teach about 20 Modern Arnis weekend seminars a year.
I have given Modern Arnis exhibitions in Germany, Denmark, Holland, Sweden and Norway with up to 15.000 spectators watching. 1996 I received Lakan Anim (6th Dan) and the DATU title as the 4th person from the Professor. We had him regulary in Germany and held seminars with 80 - 130 Modern arnis practitioners here in Germany. We held our examinations here in Germany and the Professor was always very pleased with the results. During his last seminar with us we had 28 black belt gradings form 1st up to 5th Dan. He always brought americans over to whitness the gradings and the seminar, like Dr. Randi Shea, Al Garza, Datu David Hoffman, Jeff Delaney and also Datu Tim Hartman. I have taught seminars in the US, where people like Michel Bates, Al Garza (organizer in Texas) and Dr. Randi Shea participated. During the Professors last seminar here with us in 1999, he asked Jeff Delany to invite me to Texas.
I know all of the MOTT´s exept of Ken Smith and all Datus exept Datu Shishir Inocalla and Datu Ric Bong Journales and I am also in good terms with Roland Dantes, whom I know since 1983, when I met him in Manila.
I was with the Professor during his last days, I left on Monday and he died on Tuesday.
I don´t write this to brag but just that you see that I know what I am talking about.

Regarding the IMAF´s and so on I want to stay out of the politics. I am only observing what happens.
Regarding Jamil Tharkani: He was a student of a student of mine and he made his 1st Dan with us in I think in 1997 or 98, when Dr. Randi Shea and Al Garza were here too. He split with the DAV in 1999 to join Gaby and seemed to have split with her too is with Jeff Delaney now as far as I know.
His event was a fund raising event for handicapped children featuring Capoeira, Wun Hop Kuen Do, (Dacascos Kung Fu) and a few other styles. Modern Arnis was only a 5 minute exhibition and it definitively was not an IMAF event. Jeff Delaney was there but did not give an exhibition. The Arnis part was held by Jamil. It was with a lot of high kicking and so on. A good show, but not really what we (and I think you too) would call Modern Arnis. JD was quoted with the statement: "I could not influence this exhibition any more"
Regarding Gaby Roloff: She made the contact between the Professor and us in 1994, when she was brown belt. She does not belong to the DAV and is teaching almost only women. She has nothing really to do with most of the Modern Arnis players in Germany, because they do not belong to her group. She has no groups in other countries in Europpe and teaches mainly seminars in the US and not so much here. One does not hear much from her. As far as I know she was not at Jamils event.

Regarding problems in Germany, there are alway problems, when people meet and work togeter (or not work together).
Modern Arnis in the US goes the same way as Aikido, Wing Chun, Keno, JKA Karate and really any other style, where the strong man at the top, who holds everything together, dies. (I womnder what happens when Dan Inosanto is dead) I am sure it will be the same with the WMAA when Tim drops out or with the DAV, when I stop there. It seems to be part of the human nature, that it is alomst impossible to accept a new leader, when he is picked out of a group of even people, or, in the case of JD, even below the level of the top people

The Professor let us find many different ways to interprete his Modern Arnis and the only way to do him justice is being tolerant, beacuse if there is one thing he hated it was politics. We all have learned at diffenerent stages of his development, and I think the beauty of the art is, that it does hardly limit us, when we observe the principies behind the techniques.

During one examination for a 2nd Dan, the person was moving , let us say very individually, not the way most other Modern Arnis players move. When we discussed the examination with the Professor befor handing out the degree, we asked him about his feelings towards that and the Professor said: "Leave him his feedom" For me it was a clear soign from him, that it is important that the art works individually for everybody and that there is not a standard right or wrong, but rather a "it works" or "it doesn´t work" and that he did not want to have copies of himself but thinking individuals, that can adapt the techniques to their needs or to the ones of their students. This is, I think, also, what he gave the DATU title for. I can´t speak for everybody, but I think for Datu Kelly Worden, myself and Datu Tim Hartman, it is the case.

Anyway, this post is very long already and I don´want to boe you all too much.

If there are any more questions regarding Arnis her in Germany or Europe, I will be more that willing to share my views.

DATU Dieter Knüttel

BTW: If you are interested in our interpretation of Modern Arnis, I have 5 videos about our currrent grading program up to brown belt plus I am almost finished with a new video about the Tapi-Tapi of Modern Arnis, which runs for more than 90 minutes.
You can find out more under
http://www.abanico.de

 

[Datu Tim Hartman]

I think that we need to clear up the use of the word MODERN ARNIS when it comes to europe.

For a while GM Ernesto Presas (Remy's younger brother) would use the same name of Modern Arnis for the program he was teaching. Although there are many things alike, it is not the same program. Eventually after the two brothers had a talk Ernesto changed his program name to Kombaton. Before this time Ernesto promoted many poeple in europe in the name of Modern Arnis. This has caused much confusion many of these people still call the program Modern Arnis even though the name has been changed.

The reason for me bringing this up is that saying that Gaby is not active with the German Modern Arnis players is not entirley accurate. She is active with the Remy Modern Arnis people. I've taught at her club, she has many people in Hamburg. I also know that she has other affiliated schools.

I'm not trying to start trouble, just clearing things up.

That's all for now.
:asian: