Modern arnis lineage?

[tmanifold]

I read a post awhile back that mention Grandmaster E. Preras, I assumed that to be his son. Then I saw an ad for GM Jeff Delany, the designated successor to Remy Presas. I got to thinking and came up with some questions.
How many people are trying to claim they are Prof. Presas successor?
What are these people using to back up their claims?
Is there a consensus successor (or two or three that stand out) or not?

I am not really concerned with the politics or who is better, I am just curious because I don't really know much about the system's organization.

Thanks for any answers,
Tony

 

[Bob Hubbard]

E. Presas is probably Ernesto, who is grandmaster of his own system. Jeff Delaney is the only person currently claiming to be Grandmaster of Modern Arnis, and there is much controversy surrounding that claim.

Right now, the question of succession has many answers, yet none clear.

The MOTTs under Dr. Schea's IMAF appear to have the most legal of claims to the continuing of GM Remy Presas' work.

The Presas family has been active since their fathers death last year on the seminar system to good reviews. They have been joined by several of the older blackbelts from the Phillipians.

The Datus have been continuing the legacy in many ways...Kelly Worden recently released a special knife dedicated to the memory of Professor Presas, and Tim Hartman has been traveling the world promoting the art, to name 2 examples.

Other independants such as Dr. Barber and Dan Anderson have been highly visible lately in promoting a Modern Arnis Symposium, and several books on the art (respectivly)

Bram Frank, Dieter Knüttel, David Hoffman, and many others have also been very visible keeping the art alive and visible. I've missed mentioning many other folks only due to my faulty memory.


Give a good read thru this forum, and you'll see alot of the movers in the art posting. Hopefully some of them are close enough to you to offer the chance to train.

:asian:

 

[arnisador]

He is one of the Professor's brothers. He called his system Modern Arnis for a while but now calls it Kombatan.

No one person is widely accepted as the Professor's successor. Mr. Delaney, Dr. Schea, Dr. Remy Presas Jr., and Mr. Hartman could all make plausible claims to this status.

 

[tmanifold]

What about Mr. Delany's claim that he is the designated successor? Does he hav any paper work to back it up or is it just a word of mouth thing?

Tony

 

[Dan Anderson]

Tmanifold,
To answer a couple of questions for you:

"How many people are trying to claim they are Prof. Presas successor? Is there a consensus successor (or two or three that stand out) or not?"

1) So far nobody has come out and claimed that he/she is the successor to Remy Presas except for Jeff Delaney. 2) There is no "consensus successor" as of yet. there are a number of us who stand out, though, in the Modern Arnis world.

"What about Mr. Delany's claim that he is the designated successor? Does he have any paper work to back it up or is it just a word of mouth thing?"

I don't know and haven't heard anything of actual paperwork of his succession. It was put up on the IMAF website (when it was one organization and not two) about he and Randi Schea being designated "co-successors." Guro Dan McConnell of Ohio and a member of the board of directors of IMAF, Inc. did say he has seen Masters of Tapi-Tapi certificates actually issued by Prof. Presas.

Yours,
Dan Anderson
Founder, Modern Arnis 80

 

[tmanifold]

Thanks for the info.
So essentially this isn't a Wing Chun thing where every one of Prof. Presas' students is cliaming to be the Next GM?

If so, it is about time. Good for you guys.

Tony

 

[Red Blade]

Originally posted by tmanifold

I read a post awhile back that mention Grandmaster E. Preras, I assumed that to be his son. Then I saw an ad for GM Jeff Delany, the designated successor to Remy Presas. I got to thinking and came up with some questions.
How many people are trying to claim they are Prof. Presas successor?
What are these people using to back up their claims?
Is there a consensus successor (or two or three that stand out) or not?

I am not really concerned with the politics or who is better, I am just curious because I don't really know much about the system's organization.

Thanks for any answers,
Tony

I can't tell you about the others but, I was in Toronto for a seminar with GM R. Presas and Datu Hartman was also teaching. At the end of the seminar GM Presas announced that Datu Hartman was one of his successors. If I'm not mistaken Jaybacca mentioned this in an other thread a while ago also.

R.B.

 

[Dan Anderson]

Hi Red,
In different parts of the US, Prof. Presas mentioned different individuals to be successors. He mentioned to a group of us that he had about 10 people around the country who were going to succeed him. He never did broadly communicate and name an ultimate supreme grandmaster to succeed him although if you read my previous post, Jeff Delaney claims he did name him and Randi Schea.

There are a number of us seniors who are continuing the art and for the most part, are getting along just fine.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

 

[bloodwood]

Dan,
Do you know who the 10 people are?

 

[Dan Anderson]

Blood,
Sorry, no hard data on that one. I can only guess that the highest ranking guys were on the list. Tim, Dieter, Chuck, Shishir, Randi and myself are the first ones who come to mind. I know there are others who will come to mind after I send off this post. At the time he was speaking regionally as well (e.g. me on the west coast, Tim in the northeast, etc.). It's too bad RP was not a "put it on paper" kind of guy. Oh, well...

Yours,
Dan

 

[bloodwood]

Was there any mention by RP of his children taking over the organization or at least being part of a group of leaders. They seemed to be estranged from him until just before he passed.

My sources also tell me that several people were named in his WILL to guide Modern Arnis. I still think there should be answers as to the contents of his WILL and to WHO is holding up or blocking probating it. Smells fishy to me.

 

[Datu Tim Hartman]

Originally posted by bloodwood

Was there any mention by RP of his children taking over the organization or at least being part of a group of leaders.

No.

 

[Dan Anderson]

Originally posted by bloodwood

Was there any mention by RP of his children taking over the organization or at least being part of a group of leaders. They seemed to be estranged from him until just before he passed.

My sources also tell me that several people were named in his WILL to guide Modern Arnis. I still think there should be answers as to the contents of his WILL and to WHO is holding up or blocking probating it. Smells fishy to me.

Oh Geez -
Please don't even bring up the will.

Oy! (and I'm not even Jewish)

Dan

 

[dearnis.com]

The will(s) has to/have to come up sometime. (well, maybe not; maybe it/they will be sat on indefinately...)
In one sense the sooner everything is out on the table, the sooner we can all get on with getting on. Waiting 1, 2 , or more years will only serve to destroy whatever stability has evolved up to that point.
(though to agree with what I think is Dan's intent, maybe better if it/they were never seen)
Chad

 

[arnisador]

The part of it dealing with Modern Arnis, that is--his financial affairs are irrelevant.

 

[dearnis.com]

Exactly; the part(s) dealing with the arts.

 

[modarnis]

Originally posted by dearnis.com

The will(s) has to/have to come up sometime. (well, maybe not; maybe it/they will be sat on indefinately...)
In one sense the sooner everything is out on the table, the sooner we can all get on with getting on. Waiting 1, 2 , or more years will only serve to destroy whatever stability has evolved up to that point.
(though to agree with what I think is Dan's intent, maybe better if it/they were never seen)
Chad

The Professor died in Canada, living as a Canadian. His wills were executed in the U.S. While they may serve as evidence of his intent, as a matter of law he died intestate (that is without a will) and his property/cash will be dispersed based on Canadian rules of intestacy

Brett

 

[bloodwood]

His property and cash are none of our business but the intent part certainly is. So even though his final will that was done in the USA is invalid for legal purposes, his intent for the future of his art does not fall in that catagory. It only matters to us. So who's got it???

 

[Rich Parsons]

General Question to everyone,

I understand that some would believe that the Will could solve all the legitimate issues. But what if it said something you did not want to hear? Would you then stop training with who you are now and train with them?

Yes it would be good to know his last intention, but then again he (Remy) Talked to many people before his death and urged many if not all to continue the art. Get involved. Do what you think is correct. So, does the last thing said or the last thing written carry more word?

Did the Professor, have a sound mind when he told some people some things? Or was he under pain and or pain killers?

This leads back to the first Question, would it really change who your training with? Would the 'truth' allow you to know some higher secret? Would it allow you to legally go after the rest of the people teaching Arnis, not associated with the one or ones listed in the Will?

Sorry for the Diatribe, Just some questions I felt like asking. Your answers would be greatly appreciated.

Rich

 

[bloodwood]

The way things have played out in the last year or so can make a good case for not knowing what is in Professor's will. However just the fact that there is a will out there with Professor's intentions, is intriguing, and having it sequestered just makes it more mysterious. Maybe what we don't know won't hurt us. I guess it could clear some things up but also make some things cloudier. Personally, I'd rather live dangerously and know.