Master of fighting video

[SilatFan]

I just got done watching the master of fighting video and the Mass attacks video. I am wondering if somebody here can explain to me a little bit of what was going on regarding the master of fighting video . I have never trained with anyone in RMA so I think some of the stuff was over my head.

When MR (im afraid ill totally butcher his name) is moving with guys he moves totally different than does vlad. I like that RMA recognizes that different people will move differently but this seems drastically different. Is it just my perception or is MR's different movement just indicative of his higher skill set or something else? Another question I have is it seems everyone that is moving with MR has some basic to advanced RMA training (atleast by the way everyone knows how to fall safely). The "energy" that MR uses to move/manipulate people is really interesting but has anyone here had it done to them? What was it like? And have you ever seen a person subjected to it who didnt know some basic RMA? I know that the people there tried to explain it but I had some difficulty understanding what they were saying.

Thanks

 

[Paul Genge]

It is like seeing a frieght train coming down the track and knowing that if you do not get off the line it will really hurt. How you choose to get off the track is yours to make.

As for doing this work against new guys it is easily done when the attack is committed, but there are some people that insist on looking down the track in the wrong direction and ignore the sound of the train's horn, as a distracting sound, which is talked over by their internal dialogue. These people just get run over by the train.

Paul Genge
http://www.russianmartialart.org.uk

 

[Paul Genge]

Here is an article on some of the principles behind this kind of work and video clips emphasising the principles described.

Paul Genge.

 

[Furtry]

1)

Is it just my perception or is MR's different movement just indicative of his higher skill set or something else?

Different body types, personalities, interpretation/expression of the same principles.
2)

Another question I have is it seems everyone that is moving with MR has some basic to advanced RMA training (at least by the way everyone knows how to fall safely)

No, MR works with everyone irregardless of ability. Some who are better get worked harder. He never tries to hurt anyone, even though he's KOed me a couple of times .
3)

has anyone here had it done to them? What was it like? And have you ever seen a person subjected to it who didn’t know some basic RMA?

Yes, I was aware that it was happening but couldn't do anything about it... actually I could have chosen to be KOed . I've done it to people, on one occasion during a multiple opponent full on sparing session. The person to whom I did this to showed up to 'try' us out. Him and his friend were instructed to attack me any way they wanted. At one point during the exchange, after pushing his friend in to a wall I turned and tried to punch him in the face, I missed by at least a foot, he hit the ground head first and decided not to continue :idunno: . I suppose if I would have hit him, as I was swinging full force, he might not have decided not to continue also.

Hope that helps.

 

[SilatFan]

Hello Furtry.

When you write about the time you have done "it" to people was there specific training exercises/methods you had been working on to develop "it"? Or is "it" something that has just developed as a part of your general training?

Also when you said that-
"Yes, I was aware that it was happening but couldn't do anything about it... actually I could have chosen to be KOed "

It may be hard to put into words but what did it feel like that was happening?

Thanks

 

[SilatFan]

Hello Paul Genge.


"It is like seeing a frieght train coming down the track and knowing that if you do not get off the line it will really hurt. How you choose to get off the track is yours to make."

When you say that you know that it will hurt is that because it already hurts to a degree or because you feel pressure mounting or is it just something you sense?



Thanks for the links. I'll check them out.

 

[Paul Genge]

It does not take a degree in physiology to know that colliding with a fist is going to be bad for your well being. If the opponent is able to sense the threat on either a concious or unconcious level they will react to it. The level of reaction is down to them. Some people flinch instinctively then correct themselves and others just go with their natural reaction.

In the system we are taught to move to a place where we naturally feel comfortable. This does not mean you have to roll to do this. It very much depends on the indiviual and the situation they find themselves in. However our training allows us to move to the floor as part of this natural movement because it holds no fear for us.

To achieve this you need to practice moving to and on the floor which has to be honest. By this I mean that covering the floor with mats is not going to allow you to move freely on a concrete floor. There are other things to practice from the view point of the floor before we can become truely free in this area. These include working against strikes and kicks, moving on the floor in crowds and whilst crushed.

If you check out the other articles and clips on my site you will find one covering working against kicks from the floor.

Paul Genge
http://www.russianmartialart.org.uk

 

[Furtry]

Hello Furtry.

When you write about the time you have done "it" to people was there specific training exercises/methods you had been working on to develop "it"? Or is "it" something that has just developed as a part of your general training?

Also when you said that-
"Yes, I was aware that it was happening but couldn't do anything about it... actually I could have chosen to be KOed "

It may be hard to put into words but what did it feel like that was happening?

Thanks

Yes and no... In general it's a part of everyday work that develops gradually.
There are specific exercises but they do nothing on their own with out the rest of the work. When I did it the one and only time that I can say was one hundred percent real, against a committed attacker who knew nothing of Systema, I wasn’t trying to do it.

(As much as I hate typing here is a story to put it in to perspective.)\ My first meeting with Vlad was due to a friend who insisted I try Systema. My friend started to ask about "energy" work, and how to do it and how to develop this ability. Vlad says, in his usual deadpan way, 'easy… just do it'.
'Well... how?' my friend insists. Vlad says ‘watch this’ and shows us how he can move a pencil on his desk with out touching it. Now at this point I'm thinking 'WTF! Is this guy for real?' He then smiles and says 'it's all in the breathing'. I'm looking at him as if he's got two heads at this time. He then says 'you see, if you breath just rite no one notices that you're blowing on the pencil to make it move'. I was simply floored at this time, feeling like a complete fool. This guy had me so psyched out that I thought he had some kind of powers... then I start to laugh at my gullibility. Thinking that this could be done, what an idiot I am. Fast-forward five years- training, witnessing, participating, and doing some of this no contact work, I have an epiphany. (To this day, after seven years of study and training with Vlad, and twenty plus years of MA training I still get epiphanies :supcool: )
Vlad did show us how its done the first time we met, it’s a matter of ‘psyching’ a person out. I chose not to recognize it. We asked, the toothless babies, for a bite of the apple but couldn’t get a taste, as we didn’t have teeth. Vlad offered it willingly; it was us who had no idea what we asked for. It has been like that ever since, just be sure you know what you’re asking for.
In short, it is something that develops as part of your everyday training, there is no short cut.

Now, for part two of your question.

If you’re asking did I feel some kind of an external force or pressure the answer is no. What I did feel was inept in my attempts to do anything to MR or Vlad. So it became a matter of trying to survive or get punished. The harder I tried to out maneuver them the easier it became for them to manipulate me. Eventually leading to me getting thrown, or having to roll for safety. This was explained in simple terms, ‘the person must be conscious’. Your movements have to be at the rite rhythm and with intent, although not the hocus-pocus intent, but intent to make contact. It’s up to them to deal with it.
Hope that clarifies things.

 

[mscroggins]

Great post.

 

[RachelK]

Unlike Paul and Furty, I'm a novice Systema student. And I haven't seen either of those videos. I have seen Beyond the Physical. The no-contact work is very advanced stuff. But just as Paul's article says,

"Of course if they don't react you can simply hit them. Do this a few times and they will soon start to move."

Whenever our class has tried learning to work without contact. I have poked my partners in the eye or hit them in the head but so far, I have not gotten anyone to move without touching them, except for people who have a strong flinch response to any movement. But I have been on the receiving end with one of my teachers, Martin Wheeler. This was when I first started training and I hadn't yet grasped the RMA fundamentals. When Martin attacked me, I wasn't thinking of anything beyond getting out of the way. I suppose if I could place a thought in my head at that time, it would have been something like, "Here comes Martin's right hand. I'd better move my head or else he will hit me." Except that Martin's left hand was occupying the space where I intended to move my head. So I changed the direction of my movement again, but everyone I tried to go, Martin's hands were already occupying that space. I tried to duck and weave around him but he is one of the most senior Systema instructors in all the world, and eventually there was no place to go but down. I chose to fall, rather than be hit in the face. Many people do not. They would rather accept the strike than fall down. If I didn't mind being hit in the face, I still would have gone down, it just would have been a lot more painful.
It may have looked like Martin was just waving his hands around and I was tanking, and that's why the no-contact work has to be experienced rather than witnessed. If Martin had made contact, it would have appeared a more dramatic and effective takedown to an untrained eye. After all, Martin can dish out some serious punishment. But I'm a wimp when it comes to being hit in the face
I hope this helps with your understanding of this topic, SilatFan. Paul, thanks for the link, that was a great article. Demetry, thanks for the posts.
*Vsego nailuchshego* (best wishes),
Rachel

 

[SilatFan]

Thanks to all of you for your insight!

 

[Clive]

When Martin attacked me, I wasn't thinking of anything beyond getting out of the way. I suppose if I could place a thought in my head at that time, it would have been something like, "Here comes Martin's right hand. I'd better move my head or else he will hit me." Except that Martin's left hand was occupying the space where I intended to move my head. So I changed the direction of my movement again, but everyone I tried to go, Martin's hands were already occupying that space. I tried to duck and weave around him but he is one of the most senior Systema instructors in all the world, and eventually there was no place to go but down. I chose to fall, rather than be hit in the face. Many people do not. They would rather accept the strike than fall down.

Just adding to Rachels explanation of this sort of work, if you see a fist or a leg coming towards you your initial reaction is to move away from the threat. What is being done is a manipulation of this reaction, you are using what looks like an intentional movement to cause the attacker to move in a certain way. Using the example Rachel gave, once she moved out of the way of the intitial attack Martin knew where her body wanted to go and made sure that she was unable to go there by putting a threat into that space. Once he had gained unconcious control over her, she was like a puppet on a string.

Having such an in depth knowledge of knowing where the body wants to go and how to send it there takes a lot of patience, understanding and most importantly practice, hence why only the top level students can actually use this work proficiently.

 

[Pervaz]

Sensitivity training ???

 

[Clive]

Hey Perv,

:2xBird2:

You going to the seminar at the w/end?

ooo, I have been promoted to an orange belt, now my attackers can see me coming!!

Why is there no transparent belt ?!?!?!

 

[RachelK]

I love my orange belt, it matches my avatar perfectly! I dread being promoted, what if my new belt clashes with Prince Ruslan? Perish the thought!
All the best,
Rachel

 

[BoxANT]

nice post Furtry, good story.