Martial Arts? It's BS.

[Hordfest]

@Josh Oakley

I hear where you are coming from, but the word lie has two definitions, both which are satisfied by Penn and Teller. Both definitions, according to Merriam-Webster are:

1.) to make an untrue statement with the intent to deceive
2.) to create a false or MISLEADING impression.

The first definition is satisfied when Penn and Teller say "Let's face it, martial arts is a business and belts are their primary product." A statement is untrue if any part of it is untrue. This is a blanket statement claiming that martial arts as a whole is a business with the intent of making money off the PRIMARY product of belts. Not only is he misrepresenting not-for-profit dojos that simply want to keep the doors open, but he is also misrepresenting any school that is legitimate about their belt system. Since they are illusionists, it's obvious that the second part of the definition, "the intent to deceive," is fulfilled.

The second definition is satisfied anytime that the video mentions a blatantly one-sided argument that gives a misleading impression, and as is already agreed, there are a plethora of misleading impressions in that video.

Therefore, humor or not, this video is full of LIES. Yes, there are some facts, and some opinions, but there are also an abundance of lies by definition.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

So.

The guy breaking boards was legit?
Even though the board breaking is a parlor trick as demonstrated?
Even though getting hit by a 2x3 as shown and breaking it isn't a trick at all?

The laughing chicken lady was legit?

Please don't say yes. There's that other Bull Site that would really laugh at us if anyone says yes.

 

[mxav]

So.

The guy breaking boards was legit?
Even though the board breaking is a parlor trick as demonstrated?
Even though getting hit by a 2x3 as shown and breaking it isn't a trick at all?

The laughing chicken lady was legit?

Please don't say yes. There's that other Bull Site that would really laugh at us if anyone says yes.

Breaking boards is as much a parlor trick as that crap Dillman is peddling, does anyone actually take Dillman seriously?

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I break tables, that are on fire.
More impressive.

 

[pgsmith]

The laughing chicken lady was legit?

Ha! She was an absolute nut case! However, whatever it is that she's doing still beats sitting on the couch watching reality shows, which way too much of the population does for a hobby. Any sort of "martial art", no matter how loosely defined or outrageously inept, is still better than that.

I break tables, that are on fire.
More impressive.

Cut them with a sword. Everyone would love that!

 

[Steve]

I agree with most of the points brought up in the show and think it's great that someone finally called ******** on the martial arts industry.

Sure, there are great MA schools in every style. Sure, there are styles that are less fraught with shenanigans than others. But the truth is, most of what is taught in the standard, run of the mill martial arts school is crapola. Where kids are involved, it's almost all crap. I've said many times and still believe wholeheartedly that kids are often LESS capable of defending themselves the longer they train in martial arts. Where they might once have run like hell, they're so filled up with false accomplishments and bogus self defense one steps that they'll be lucky to survive an actual self defense situation, much less make any of the junk they've been taught work.

The above is my opinion. Your mileage may vary.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

I agree with most of the points brought up in the show and think it's great that someone finally called ******** on the martial arts industry.

Sure, there are great MA schools in every style. Sure, there are styles that are less fraught with shenanigans than others. But the truth is, most of what is taught in the standard, run of the mill martial arts school is crapola. Where kids are involved, it's almost all crap. I've said many times and still believe wholeheartedly that kids are often LESS capable of defending themselves the longer they train in martial arts. Where they might once have run like hell, they're so filled up with false accomplishments and bogus self defense one steps that they'll be lucky to survive an actual self defense situation, much less make any of the junk they've been taught work.

The above is my opinion. Your mileage may vary.

I can see where you're coming from, but I suppose it depends on the individual school. For me personally, I have never seen a school advertise that they will teach you to become some sort of 'martial arts warrior'. The mcdijos in my area usually say "fun, fitness and self defense for the whole family" (or something similar). And in reality, they are going to get you fitter, you will have fun, and as I said in an earlier post, you will increase cardio fitness, core strength, co ordination, distancing, timing, they will also learn kicks and punches and a whole host of other things they would not learn sitting at home on the couch. If the student lets it go to their head and think they are now 'untouchable' and posess some amazing fighting skills, then that is because they have let it go that way. I cant speak on behalf of schools outside of my area, but all in all I have found most schools around here to be quite honest about what they teach. We have a mcdojo up the road that I called when I was originally enquiring about starting tkd and the instructor told me straight out that if my only goal is fighting and learning to kick someone's *** then go find a krav maga club (they were his exact words). I still believe that if you get two identical people, exactly the same in all ways and one of them spends 5 years at a mcdojo and the other just gets on with their normal day to day life and does absolutely no training whatsoever and then after the 5 years you put them both in a cage and get them to fight to the death, the guy with 5 years mcdojo experience will win by a mile. He will know how to punch and kick (not well, but he would have thrown hundreds of thousands of punches and kicks over the 5 years), he will be fitter, stronger, have some minor conditioning and will have better reflexes and a basic understanding of distancing.

 

[K-man]

I think there is enough truth in the videos for most of us to recognise and so much BS is taught in too many schools. As others have said, there can be benefits from training in a McDojo but the same time spent in a school with a knowledgable teacher should produce a better outcome. If that is not the case then why don't we all use their money making formula?

Most karate schools promote competition and many use the results to demonstrate how good they are. As I have said before, training for sport and training RBSD are chalk and cheese. What those guys said about the use of karate on the street is undoubtably true. A little bit of knowledge can get you into an awful lot of trouble.

What they said about the legal ramifications of the overuse of force is also true. Those of us who teach RBSD also teach the legal justification for its use and the consequences of going too far.

As for cleaning etc. Who cares? In Okinawa you mop the floor after training. Being expected to paint the place is a bit much but is that actually the case, or did the guys volunteer?

Finally, it is interesting to read some of the comments on this thread in the light of previous discussions on freedom of speech. I thought at least some people might have mentioned Penn and Teller's right to say what they like, even if we disagree!

Doesn't mean I go along with all they said but there is enough truth in what they say to make us all have a good look at what we do and make sure we don't live in a glass house.

 

[Indie12]

I think there is enough truth in the videos for most of us to recognise and so much BS is taught in too many schools. As others have said, there can be benefits from training in a McDojo but the same time spent in a school with a knowledgable teacher should produce a better outcome. If that is not the case then why don't we all use their money making formula?

Most karate schools promote competition and many use the results to demonstrate how good they are. As I have said before, training for sport and training RBSD are chalk and cheese. What those guys said about the use of karate on the street is undoubtably true. A little bit of knowledge can get you into an awful lot of trouble.

What they said about the legal ramifications of the overuse of force is also true. Those of us who teach RBSD also teach the legal justification for its use and the consequences of going too far.

As for cleaning etc. Who cares? In Okinawa you mop the floor after training. Being expected to paint the place is a bit much but is that actually the case, or did the guys volunteer?

Finally, it is interesting to read some of the comments on this thread in the light of previous discussions on freedom of speech. I thought at least some people might have mentioned Penn and Teller's right to say what they like, even if we disagree!

Doesn't mean I go along with all they said but there is enough truth in what they say to make us all have a good look at what we do and make sure we don't live in a glass house.

I certainly do not agree with Penn and Teller's opinions on Martial Arts, but than again they do have the right to their opinion! I do however, see their point behind a majority of Martial Arts training, sadly in the 21st century!! I watched both video's, it seems to me it's more meant to be a joke as in (haha it's television ratings) than actual opinion or fact.

The good point about 'Use of Force' and 'Law' application is actually true, a Majority of Martial Arts does NOT teach it! Among other things, And that's failing the students overall.

I will say it sounds like the introduction to their video, the underlining message behind that short few seconds, was on common sense to normal folks, (I.E. If a gun is pointed at you, don't stand there and try to take it away, just give them your wallet, purse, money, etc and be safe with it!)

It does reinforces the question 'Practicality of Martial Art and Martial Art Systems?'

 

[mxav]

I certainly do not agree with Penn and Teller's opinions on Martial Arts, but than again they do have the right to their opinion! I do however, see their point behind a majority of Martial Arts training, sadly in the 21st century!! I watched both video's, it seems to me it's more meant to be a joke as in (haha it's television ratings) than actual opinion or fact.

The good point about 'Use of Force' and 'Law' application is actually true, a Majority of Martial Arts does NOT teach it! Among other things, And that's failing the students overall.

I will say it sounds like the introduction to their video, the underlining message behind that short few seconds, was on common sense to normal folks, (I.E. If a gun is pointed at you, don't stand there and try to take it away, just give them your wallet, purse, money, etc and be safe with it!)

It does reinforces the question 'Practicality of Martial Art and Martial Art Systems?'

Interestingly they call the effectively ones "self defense oriented ones" as ground for murder while mocking the sportish ones. Would anyone else like to see Penn state into the Octogan, I might find that enteraining.

 

[Flying Crane]

He will know how to punch and kick (not well, but he would have thrown hundreds of thousands of punches and kicks over the 5 years),

This raises a question in my mind: if they are going to put in the effort to throw hundreds of thousands of punches and kicks, why not make sure they are doing it properly so that they WILL be able to do so well. Make those hundreds of thousands of repetitions QUALITY repetitions. Otherwise, why bother? Why accept that it will never be good, if they are putting in the work anyway?

 

[Indie12]

This raises a question in my mind: if they are going to put in the effort to throw hundreds of thousands of punches and kicks, why not make sure they are doing it properly so that they WILL be able to do so well. Make those hundreds of thousands of repetitions QUALITY repetitions. Otherwise, why bother? Why accept that it will never be good, if they are putting in the work anyway?

I agree, qualitity is what matters, not quantity!

 

[thegatekeeper]

That first video was really sweet lol, that board smashing guy must have a hard time massaging people

 

[ModernVisage]

I'm sure we know an army of teachers that can redefine this show as its own brand of ********. There are plenty of business styled self defense schools and even more teachers who haven't applied their forms in combat but that doesn't dismiss all practical values it gives:health, mental training, social strength. I have never respected those people who smash boards or pretend fancy movements(without instruction on the importance) are damaging. Competitive fighting is becoming popular which puts all styles to the test (depending on the user and target) and the systems born out of the Karate kid and Bruce Lee admiration are dying off.

 

[Haikuguy]

My teacher Yossi Sheriff was asked once in a demonstration in a university infront of hundreds of people what would he do if someone was to walk up behind him in the street and stab him in the back with a knife.


"I'd die", he said.