Martial Arts History & Influences

Tez3

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Steve why have you just repeated what I've posted and run it in with yours? it seems to me you are reading things into my posts that aren't there. when I said about the schools, I went to school in Scotland where the education is different from anyone elses, a fair statement I thought. If you are determined to take what I say the wrong way, I can't stop you. I think it's highly likely you would misunderstand me if what I'm trying to explain ( not well enough by the looks of it) how things are in a country I know well and you don't. Look at the political arguments that go on, we have different thoughts and definitations on many things, take 'liberals' for example, what we know here as liberals is different from what you know as liberals. Just because we both speak English doesn't mean we can communicate any better than if I spoke French and you German.

Chip on my shoulder, not in the least, I'm trying to explain Britishism's to you. it's our history and as for taking pot shots at Americans I haven't. You had a go at my education using exclamation marks and saying I was over emotional! I'm just sitting here trying to explain Britishisms. It's not an easy subject I can tell you. Taking ownership of what? You won't accept that what I tell you about MMA here is true, you want me to say it's all down to the UFC. It's not here it's more down to Pride, with more than a nod to the UFC fair enough but you are telling me we make money at MMA here because of the UFC, my bank manager says we don't. The rules here aren't unified in the least.

We have wrestling here.

Native wrestling... Cornish, Scottish, Lancashire, Cumberland, Northumbria, Devon (they allow heavy boots and kicking),

Pro wrestling... the fake entertainment stuff

Olympic wrestling... thats freestyle and Greco-roman.

I said I thought the style you would be familiar with as catch wrestling was the Lancashire style. We know it as Lancashire wrestling. Catch wrestling is what people call wrestling that's not Olympic or professional, probably wrongly but there you are, there's not many who do wrestling so it's forgiveable. Catch wrestling to most of us is the native type of wrestling. I'm not saying you don't know your grappling, I'm just telling you what we know which as.

Cornish wrestling is practiced in Cornwall only, though confusingly in Brittany, France it's also practised but as Breton wrestling. This is because both the Cornish and the Bretons are Celts with language, customs and genes in common not to mention smuggling. Scottish wrestling you will only find in Scotland, Northumbrian wrestling in the north east of England, Cumberland in the north west of England. Devon is obviously in Devon, a bit of an uncivilised place as it charge you to get back into it after visiting Cornwall.

The professional wrestling was popular on television in the 70's not so much now, the WWE types have taken over and spoiled it. If that's what you consider a slur on Americans I can't help that but the programmes are terrible, all shouting.

Olympic wrestling, we have a small wrestling academy in the north that co-ordinates the Olympic sport. They've run into arguments because they are recruiting foreign wrestlers and coaches. We did get a medal in the Olumpics for wrestling once, silver or bronze in 1984 I think.

There are a great many differences between us that don't show up at first, England isn't the UK, the UK, isn't Great Britain, we have five different governments here, we have parts of the British Isles that aren't parts of the United Kingdom, we have liberals you'd call conservatives and conservatives you'd call socialist. We have counties that are really countries, we have countries that are provinces and protectorates. I read that the UFC had a fight night in Dublin in the UK when it's was a different country altogether - Eire. We call the place pedestrians walk the pavement, we drive on the right, when wrestling you might say you landed on your fanny, to us you don't have one and we'd be offended by the use of that word.

I'd be interested in what colloqualisms you think I use, if you mean twee, it's in the Oxford English dictionary, it's not slang or a regional idiom.
 

Tez3

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LOL. Okay. You're right. I give up. You win.

It's not a competition it's an exchange of information on how we do things in our respective countries. How can one win when telling of customs in your own country?
 

elder999

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It's not a competition it's an exchange of information on how we do things in our respective countries. How can one win when telling of customs in your own country?

:rolleyes: By knowing when to bow out, apparently:

LOL. Okay. You're right. I give up. You win.
:asian:

:lfao:
 

Tez3

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I've been asking around MMA people and they have pointed to The Snake Pit as the home of catch wrestling, it is in Lancashire of course and they say that catch as catch can is Lancashire wrestling.
"Historically, Lancashire has undisputedly been the home of Catch-as-Catch Wrestling and many would argue that Wigan is the Catch wrestling capital of the world. Wigan is a town known for it’s mining history and many chose Catch is their sport."

http://www.snakepitwigan.com/history/

Now I don't know if this is what non Lancastrians think of as catch wrestling, sadly it's not found much outside Lancashire though it looks as if they are working on trying to revive it, on the website there's a link to a catch club in Wales. Wigan isn't a very big place btw. You may know it from George Orwell's book 'The Road to Wigan Pier', sadly it is no richer now than then.

http://vimeo.com/31498884 this will bring tears to your eyes, it was done in 1980/81. Already a lost era.

However to the rest of us non Lancastrians I'm afraid catch wrestling is the still the 'catch all' name for native wrestling. Nice pun though lol!"
 
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fenglong

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Hmm. This is probably not the right forum for me to say what I'm about to say, but the question was asked, so I feel obligated to answer it.

I have never seen anything at all that I would class as a native Korean martial art. At all. There aren't any, they are all borrowed from other cultures, with varying degrees of success (Hapkido and Tae Kwon Do being some of the more successful), Each of these borrowed arts gets a degree of "Korean flavour", but that doesn't make them natively Korean arts.
...

It is alright that you have never seen one, but assuming that your limited experience is the ultimate truth is really bad. I do not even want to read the entire 11+ pages long thread but I doubt the sanity of people who believe someone so extremely narcissistic and narrow-minded.
 

Tez3

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It is alright that you have never seen one, but assuming that your limited experience is the ultimate truth is really bad. I do not even want to read the entire 11+ pages long thread but I doubt the sanity of people who believe someone so extremely narcissistic and narrow-minded.

Are you actually insulting Chris here as well as the rest of us?

As much as Steve and I verbally spar with each other it's done in good humour and spirit, I hope you don't get the impression you can just insult people willy-nilly on here.
 

fenglong

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Are you actually insulting Chris here as well as the rest of us?

As much as Steve and I verbally spar with each other it's done in good humour and spirit, I hope you don't get the impression you can just insult people willy-nilly on here.

Yea I already got it how some people do their sparring online instead of in real life just to find a way to feel strong. But I guess your pitiful attitude in here is an actual improvement to what you do in your dojo. I know your kind.
 

Sanke

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It is alright that you have never seen one, but assuming that your limited experience is the ultimate truth is really bad. I do not even want to read the entire 11+ pages long thread but I doubt the sanity of people who believe someone so extremely narcissistic and narrow-minded.

Disregarding your quite frankly insulting post, not to mention your rather arrogant tone, can you name what you would call a truly native Korean martial art?
I agree with Chris, I've seen quite a lot of the MAs that come out of Korea, and not one is what I would call a native one.

Also, if you can't be bothered reading the thread, either don't post, or start a new thread.


Sanke on the move.
 

Sanke

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I would also like to point this out, after receiving Rep from (who I can only assume is you) Feng.

"I never said I can approve a native Korean MA, I simply said "just because you never saw one, you can not say there is none." That is pure arrogance. We are humans, no gods, we can fail and assume wrong, Chris Parker should learn that."

That's hardly the basis for an argument, you realise, and far from arrogance. It's simply observation.
If there is what could be considered a native Korean martial art, I would love to see it. It's not a dig at KMAs to say that either, It's simply how their history turned out (mostly due to massive influence and invasions from other nations). This has nothing to do with 'Being human, not gods', it's simple statement of observation.

Also if you've something to say, say it here. No need to send messages like this via rep when there is a public debate going on.
 
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Chris Parker

Chris Parker

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It is alright that you have never seen one, but assuming that your limited experience is the ultimate truth is really bad. I do not even want to read the entire 11+ pages long thread but I doubt the sanity of people who believe someone so extremely narcissistic and narrow-minded.

My limited experience includes a while in Korean systems, and a lot more experience than you've even claimed, let alone been able to demonstrate. I suggest you read the thread if you wish to comment.

As for narcissistic and narrow-minded? You can have any opinion you want, really, even when it's completely devoid of reality.... hmm.

Oh, by the way, your recent action has been reported.
 

Tez3

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So Fenglong you give me a neg rep just because you don't like what I say and by the look of it I'm not the only one. I'm glad you know my type and what I do in the dojo, it will be enlightening for you. :ultracool
 

jks9199

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Folks --

Discussing rep is against the rules (See section 12). If you have a problem with rep comment or rep you received, please notify the staff via the Contact Us link or a PM to any staff member.

So are personal attacks and following members from thread to thread solely to attack them.
 

Sanke

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Folks --

Discussing rep is against the rules (See section 12). If you have a problem with rep comment or rep you received, please notify the staff via the Contact Us link or a PM to any staff member.
.

Gotcha, my mistake.


Sanke on the move.
 

puunui

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My limited experience includes a while in Korean systems, and a lot more experience than you've even claimed, let alone been able to demonstrate.

Korean systems? Plural? I thought you said you studied Rhee Taekwondo for two years and got up to 2nd guep. Did you study something else besides that?
 

puunui

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If there is what could be considered a native Korean martial art, I would love to see it. It's not a dig at KMAs to say that either, It's simply how their history turned out (mostly due to massive influence and invasions from other nations).

What about taekkyon?
 

puunui

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I agree with Chris, I've seen quite a lot of the MAs that come out of Korea, and not one is what I would call a native one.

Which martial arts have you seen that have come out of Korea? Have you studied any? I think you told us about your 5th kyu in Australian Ninjutsu, but I wasn't aware of any other styles you may of studied, or at least "seen".
 

puunui

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For example, I've trained in BJJ myself in the past, including a seminar with Royce Gracie, and that training has helped inform a range of things that I do these days, particularly what works, and what is far less advisable, when it comes to ground fighting. There are a range of techniques that I learned there that I bring into our modern work when we focus on ground work, however when I do it, I am not doing BJJ. The reason is that, although the technical side may be pretty much identical, the approach to it isn't. We have a much higher focus on getting up, disengaging, and escape, rather than submission or control on the ground, for instance. The distinction is between doing techniques from BJJ and doing BJJ itself.

You've studied a lot of things. I'm beginning to wonder if there is an art that you haven't studied. :) I think we are up to 48 or 15, depending on how you count....

However, to take your own arguments from earlier to be wary of "self appointed historians/experts", my background and knowledge in this field is pretty well established, and if you want further information I am more than happy to provide it.

Pretty well established by who? And how about in the korean martial arts? Is your background and knowledge pretty well established in that?
 
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