Discussion in 'Grappling / Brazilian Ju Jitsu / Wrestling' started by martialtalkfan, May 22, 2008.
Well, that's what happens when you start out with an advantage no one has and you think ok, that's it, you're hot stuff, and then the younger, hungrier ones catch on and then build off of it but you don't follow suit. You may not have lost, but everyone else has gained.
It's the way of things.
Royce's BJJ is better then mine...
Isn't Laimon the "coach" that Matt Serra was gonna' smack around during the Ultimate Fighter 4?
Yes he was.
Thanks, I wanted to make sure I was thinking of the right person before I commented. The dude's a disrespectful S.O.B. While I agree that Royce's skills in MMA aren't on par with the current fighters, his BJJ abilities are as good as the majority of his family.
Let us not forget that the Gracies did fight with no rules. But I think Eddie Bravo's tenth planet jujitsu is a better version.
I mean, seriously. The Gracies have now demonstrated through UFC and the "Gracie Challenge" what hey wanted to demonstrate and their family variant of the art has reaped MASSIVE rewards because of it.
Fame, wealth, international recognition... They got what they wanted out of the deal.
Peace favor your sword,
While Royce may or may not be at the top of the BJJ heap, there are many, many Gracies still doing very well. Roger Gracie, Kyra Gracie and Kron Gracie all jump to mind. Suffice to say that the Gracie family is quite well represented.
Dogging Royce's MMA skills is a cheap shot.
A guy who won't fight MMA trashing an MMA legend that got him into BJJ in the first place? Methinks somebody thinks too highly of themselves.
Matt Hughes was THE MOST dominant champion in UFC history at that point. He's been fighting for over 10 years, studying BJJ under a BJJ blackbelt for that entire time, is a physical speciman and was almost 20 years younger than gracie. Royce losing to him isn't an embarrassment.
Isn't Matt Hughes 32 or 33? That would have made Royce at least 50. How old was he when he did that fight?
Actually 7 years.......
Royce Gracie: Dec 12, 1966
Matt Hughes: October 13, 1973
That is a bit off from 20 years.
Part of what he says is correct, it's just the delivery that makes him sound so bad.
He is correct in that the MMA game has passed by Royce...so what? Royce, and others are the ones that started MMA as we see it today. BJJ was an unknown quantity at the time, and others studied how to beat it, then more was added to the strategy etc. He was also correct about Royce and the Gracies having "special rules" for many of their matches, many people have commented on that and complained.
He also doesn't seem to draw the distintion that GJJ is more self-defense focused and has a set curriculum of self-defense techniques that is part of what they do, NOT just sport BJJ. If your focus is ONLY sport competition than it is a legitimate complaint if you aren't staying on top of the game, but if your focus is on using it for the street than you aren't going to use a lot of the latest sports moves.
I actually had more issue with the comments about Rickson Gracie. I have heard alot of big name BJJ players who have rolled with Rickson and say his skills are phenomonal. Again, he does not draw a distinction between MMA and BJJ. Rickson was in his 40's when he fought in Pride and MMA has moved leaps and bounds beyond those earlier years. So what?
He is comparing apples to oranges. Rickson and Royce were not MMA fighters, at the time they were NHB fighters or Vale Tudo. They used ONE style and pitted it against another style and won. The sport has evolved into something else since then. Now it is it's own style so to speak. Even if they couldn't compete in today's competitions that doesn't take away the skills they gave to others to further progress the direction MMA/BJJ has headed.
Very well put! I think a lot of consideration should be made into "why" someone is training in something. If you are training for sport it would definitely change your Jiu Jitsu, if you are training to simply be effective, it would make a different approach.
testing positive for steroids afterwards was
That was after the Sakuraba fight but is still a good point.
Everyone wants their 15min of fame now matter how they get it. Gracie's set the foundation and it grew from there, nothing more-nothing less..
Hard to argue with that.
Apologies, I was off in my figures for their age. Royce was only 40 when he fought Hughes.
Gracie tested positive for steroids after the Sakuraba fight, not the Hughes fight. There was a thread where I posted pictures of Gracie during the Hughes fight and during the Sakuraba fight. A huge difference in his physique.
The point is you've got a guy who won't fight MMA trash talking the first legend of mma's skills for losing an MMA match to one of the most dominant fighters we've seen, and during that fighters prime.
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