learning and self discovery

[jhexx]

I have studied wing chun for a good amount of years, had a moment were i put it down for a few years, and then now i am full blast into it more than i ever been. my training started when i was around three yrs old under my father who learned wsl lineage in the early 70's. since he had experience with the art, his version of it was indeed modified but stayed very faithful to the therories he learned initally. Around age 22 til around 34, i kinda got lazy and didnt do it as much, but then about 3 yrs ago, i took one year to retrain with my father, then the following year later for about near 6 months i studied under a sifu learning the more tradituonal Jiu Wan lineage which i am proud of and love. But i did move close to 6 months ago to Colorado, and there was no one under my lineage here i could continue with. So i recently met a person who is very knowledgable in Wang Kiu lineage, and after taking time to note the differences and similarities in the movements, positioning, and other things, we found them to be on alot of things similar. So in my experience so far, it has been great to keep learning, and adding to what i learned previously and actually see it can work for me. I do know some i have heard saying it's not good to mix multi lineages and i do understand that if there are differing reasons for a application to be applied, it can affect one negatively but in my case it is the opposite: it is allowing me to open my mind, expand my understanding of it, and looking back at what i learned previously, adding this has actually helped to improve my self discovery of my understanding of the art, and i love it! Has anyone ever experienced this in a positive manner or otherwise? I figured it would make for a decent topic to talk about in a civil manner What are your thoughts on the subject of learning from different lineages?

 

[drop bear]

It will depend on how you think these things are created. I don't believe any art was invented perfect by a master so masterfully that nobody else could have an opinion.

I believe that martial arts are a work in progress by flawed human beings. So learning somone else's take on a thing helps rather than hinders.

 

[Jake104]

It will depend on how you think these things are created. I don't believe any art was invented perfect by a master so masterfully that nobody else could have an opinion.

I believe that martial arts are a work in progress by flawed human beings. So learning somone else's take on a thing helps rather than hinders.

Great post!

 

[Danny T]

Because the human body is just about the same physically, it moves the same, the structure is the same, it's limitations is the same no matter what race or culture. There are far more similarities than differences when application is look at vs training methodology or the particular pedagogy used to instruct it.

 

[KPM]

I have learned not 3 different lineages of Wing Chun, but really 3 very different versions of Wing Chun. I have studied Yip Man Wing Chun, William Cheung's "TWC", and Pin Sun Wing Chun. I don't regret time spent in any of them. Its great to see how different versions of Wing Chun approach things. You end up having an affinity for one more than another. Maybe you end up liking the way one lineage does the pivot and weight distribution more than another. You find what works the best for you. It might not necessarily be what your original Sifu taught. And that's Ok.

 

[Thunder Foot]

That's great jhexx! I've always been taught that the forms and movements are interpretive, so there may be several ways to apply the same basic move. There are no right or wrongs as long as you stay true to the principles. Learn as much as you can and be selective in what you employ.

 

[tshadowchaser]

Jhexx I have no answere for you expect to learn all you can and take all the instruction as if you had never studied before. Do as the instructor says and see if in time you understand the "why" of it.
BTW welcome to MT

 

[Transk53]

I have studied wing chun for a good amount of years, had a moment were i put it down for a few years, and then now i am full blast into it more than i ever been. my training started when i was around three yrs old under my father who learned wsl lineage in the early 70's. since he had experience with the art, his version of it was indeed modified but stayed very faithful to the therories he learned initally. Around age 22 til around 34, i kinda got lazy and didnt do it as much, but then about 3 yrs ago, i took one year to retrain with my father, then the following year later for about near 6 months i studied under a sifu learning the more tradituonal Jiu Wan lineage which i am proud of and love. But i did move close to 6 months ago to Colorado, and there was no one under my lineage here i could continue with. So i recently met a person who is very knowledgable in Wang Kiu lineage, and after taking time to note the differences and similarities in the movements, positioning, and other things, we found them to be on alot of things similar. So in my experience so far, it has been great to keep learning, and adding to what i learned previously and actually see it can work for me. I do know some i have heard saying it's not good to mix multi lineages and i do understand that if there are differing reasons for a application to be applied, it can affect one negatively but in my case it is the opposite: it is allowing me to open my mind, expand my understanding of it, and looking back at what i learned previously, adding this has actually helped to improve my self discovery of my understanding of the art, and i love it! Has anyone ever experienced this in a positive manner or otherwise? I figured it would make for a decent topic to talk about in a civil manner What are your thoughts on the subject of learning from different lineages?

Welcome along @jhexx

Self discovery can manifest at any age. Some people can spend a lifetime looking for answers. In my experience going with the flow of life is key, irrespective of whether something is good or bad. In fact both work in tandem with each other. There is always good in bad, and vice versa. The trick is to listen to that inner voice and trust in yourself, the rest works itself out.

 

[Takai]

As my Sifu likes to say, "The truth is the truth, no matter where you see it."

 

[jhexx]

Now that i have spent about three months learning the wang kiu style, i totally see it is adaptable to my jiu wan, and having more ways of for example applying a bong, adds more to just having that " specific way" of doing things. I realize i must look at the shapes and the applications of those shapes and movements in the 4th dimension. I think the mistake a handful of practitioners make is that they see it in and out in 2d. So it's a real eye opener to see things in this perspective! And thanks for the welcomes, much appreciated!

 

[Danny T]

I think the mistake a handful of practitioners make is that they see it in and out in 2d.

So many compartmentalize information. A movement or position is named, a possible application is shown and that becomes the truth. Rather than Learning the movement, feeling and understanding the movement. Then apply the movement to whatever the opponent gives. The application may be different every time the movement is use.

 

[Vajramusti]

So many compartmentalize information. A movement or position is named, a possible application is shown and that becomes the truth. Rather than Learning the movement, feeling and understanding the movement. Then apply the movement to whatever the opponent gives. The application may be different every time the movement is use.

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Much truth in this post.

 

[Shai Hulud]

Cross-training styles has a lot to offer! Provided that you've got a good grasp of your base/primary art on which you're to build your own take on fighting/combat sport/martial artistry, learning from different schools/lineages, imho, adds depth to your fighting.

I've yet to run into a school/lineage that teaches a perfectly rounded combat system. There's usually always a gap not given enough attention - a gap another style will usually have a solution to. The rest then, is up to you and your own ingenuity.

Cheers.

 

[Transk53]

Cross-training styles has a lot to offer! Provided that you've got a good grasp of your base/primary art on which you're to build your own take on fighting/combat sport/martial artistry, learning from different schools/lineages, imho, adds depth to your fighting.

I've yet to run into a school/lineage that teaches a perfectly rounded combat system. There's usually always a gap not given enough attention - a gap another style will usually have a solution to. The rest then, is up to you and your own ingenuity.

Cheers.

I agree with this, especially for someone of my background. I personally now believe that you need something traditional as apposed to something hybrid as a starting block.

 

[Shai Hulud]

I agree with this, especially for someone of my background. I personally now believe that you need something traditional as apposed to something hybrid as a starting block.

My own struggles in the past with Jeet Kune Do and the Keysi Fighting Method led me to believe the same. I stumbled a lot more at first because hybrid systems tend to be a lot more diverse and all-encompassing (and consequently, not as specific/specialized) with their technique sets. I'm not saying that you need a TMA before taking on a hybrid - only that having solid fundamentals even just for basic techniques (which TMA's and others like boxing, kickboxing, or wrestling can offer most terrifically) will undoubtedly help one understand a another (like a hybrid or a different style under the same MA) better, and most probably faster.

 

[Transk53]

My own struggles in the past with Jeet Kune Do and the Keysi Fighting Method led me to believe the same. I stumbled a lot more at first because hybrid systems tend to be a lot more diverse and all-encompassing (and consequently, not as specific/specialized) with their technique sets. I'm not saying that you need a TMA before taking on a hybrid - only that having solid fundamentals even just for basic techniques (which TMA's and others like boxing, kickboxing, or wrestling can offer most terrifically) will undoubtedly help one understand a hybrid better, and most probably faster.

Not in my case. I tried two different flavours of JKD down here. One was just concept based, which in itself I am not dissing, but the instructor coming from a TKD and Kung Fu background, had the core skills in place. The second although Boxing based, is supposed to lead to Panantukan. Again though, I found it a little fragmented, as the beginning is JKD and Kali. Very good system as it looks, but a little overwhelming sometimes. Anyway, the end it did not matter too much as I have a shift change at work, so could only make one class a week, which would not have been enough.

 

[jhexx]

One of the best choices i made during training is to take extra time to do sil lim tao, slow so that you start getting the mind to look at those movements and think out the box while studying them. Concentrating on breathing with dian tien. I took sil lim tao for about two years straight, before even stepping into chum kiu. With the second form, i'm taking about 6 more months to a year to refine it. Because i took extra time, i can clearly see the benefits of doing so.

 

[Transk53]

One of the best choices i made during training is to take extra time to do sil lim tao, slow so that you start getting the mind to look at those movements and think out the box while studying them. Concentrating on breathing with dian tien. I took sil lim tao for about two years straight, before even stepping into chum kiu. With the second form, i'm taking about 6 more months to a year to refine it. Because i took extra time, i can clearly see the benefits of doing so.

Sounds good jhexx. Hopefully some of the previous exposure for me will have some effect. I am lucky that I know one Wing Chun practitioner quite well. Should be able to get some decent ground work in before the 6th of January. That will the first class at the WT school. Anyway, best of luck with your endeavours