Leadership

[loki09789]

I have to agree with you It is like in High School if your son or daughter had a teacher that was arrested for robbery and then released until his trial would you want him teaching your sibling? All Teachers by definition are role models and there fore should be held to a higher standard. If the teacher doen't like this responsibility then choose another job.

Respectfully

Rick

Though I agree that teachers don't get 'leadership' training as part of their teacher training, I still say the hole in this comparison is that Most martial arts teachers/masters/seniors don't get either teacher or leadership training in a formal sense. There are some excellent and inspired teachers of martial arts, but how much better might they be or how much faster might they learn how to teach/lead (and reduce the negative impact on students) if there was a formal program for teaching as an art, just like the systematic art is taught.

I know I have beat this drum before but military leadership development programs aren't a bad model to adapt to a civilian martial arts program because instructional training, counselling (as in giving feedback on rank/promotion testing results in a positive way), leading group fitness... all are part of NCO/Leadership training.

 

[TigerWoman]

...we're talking on TWO threads right now on the same subject.

 

[loki09789]

...we're talking on TWO threads right now on the same subject.

Just proves my point about common sense not being common , the overlap of teacher/leader seems like it should be obvious, but it isn't so obvious to people in educational circles. There are tons of classes on teaching method xyz or abc, but there really are not any classes on teacher/leadership responsibility or getting, on the average, middle middle class 'kids' of 19-25 who have never really had this much responsibility in their lives to understand how significant it is AND how to take charge of that responsibility.

Historically, teachers -especially of martial arts - were either aristocratic family members/leaders who were also military leaders groomed from early childhood on to take that responsibility OR monk/priests of religions that incorporated martial arts into the religious life.

Even in our western/USA educational history, religious groups were the original conveyers of knowledge, so teachers were either actual religious order members, or held to that same standard.

There is room for personal leadership/instructor style but, like martial arts, that can only really be a GOOD style if it is built up/out of a foundation.

 

[kenpo tiger]

I suppose another question should be why do we expect martial arts seniors to be leaders? Probably because of "martial" associations with military structures, and the hirearchal (sp?) rank structures that seem to imply some sort of "superiority" (beyond simple physical training) the higher up you go. Is a "master" really a "leader" or just a person with physical skills? Is a master gymnast or marathon runner a "leader"? I know... techniques of violence and combat are being taught and some sort of responsibility needs to be associated with that, but expectations of leadership? You need to bring that in with you and like Ceicei said, the dojo isnt the primary source for that.

I vote for no one becoming a master UNTIL he exhibits the leadership skills. There are 'masters' out there who are VERY poor examples of human beings.

I have been told many times by many people that the title 'sensei' only means 'one who came before' and not teacher, instructor or who knows what else some of these guys make up for themselves. Yes, the belt system is based upon lower belts following the example of upper belts (the hierarchy to which you referred), but it doesn't necessarily follow that the behavior is always exemplary and to be followed; only the technical skills imparted are.:asian:

 

[TigerWoman]

That was really good KT. To teach, I really think there should be not only a black belt test, but a teaching program that follows. I saw a new black belt send his first students to a testing. I was embarrassed, I don't know if he was, on how poorly his students performed. Most didn't pass in fact, for the first year of testings. But that's just technical skills, memory, balance, technique etc. I was just surprised that he sent his students to the test in front of their parents too. He loves the art but he is teaching for the extra income mainly, IMO.

 

[kenpo tiger]

In my dojo our teaching class begins when we reach Brown I, which is the last colored belt rank. We must have 200 hours of teaching before we can test for black.

Teaching my Tiny Tigers on Saturday morning is the highlight of my week. They are my little angels.

 

[loki09789]

In my dojo our teaching class begins when we reach Brown I, which is the last colored belt rank. We must have 200 hours of teaching before we can test for black.

Teaching my Tiny Tigers on Saturday morning is the highlight of my week. They are my little angels.

Learning hands on is one of the best ways IMO. THe 200 hour requirement is an excellent idea. Is there any mentorship/class planning guidance as part of these 200 hours? Do you critique the class with your instructor in an evaluative way so that you can improve on what you did well/work out what you could do better? It is really exciting to hear of teaching being so seriously promoted.

I think a combination of required teaching time AND guided instruction is a good way to go.

 

[loki09789]

I have been told many times by many people that the title 'sensei' only means 'one who came before' and not teacher, instructor or who knows what else some of these guys make up for themselves.

That may be the literal/technical translation but the semantic use, even in Japan for Sensei is for 'teacher.' Public school teachers are referred to as Sensei just as readily as martial arts instructors or dance instructors.... I don't know about the Japanese equivalent to Ph.D's or Grad. students though. There may not be one.

Now the interesting thing about that literal definition is how the Japanese culture views teachers. Teachers should be 'one who came before' or IMO someone who is merely farther along the training path. That doesn't automatically equate to "Master" but it does equate to what is very popularly 'buzz' termed "life long learner" in teacher educational training. Unfortunately, this idea of being a life long learner as opposed to the 'top dog' gets as much lip service in professional teaching circles as it seems to in Martial arts circles.

 

[Tgace]

Human Nature??

 

[kenpo tiger]

I always discuss what I've taught as well as how the kids did with my instructor. He is enthusiastic about letting me try new games with the little ones as a learning tool for them. He will give criticism, but it's always done in a constructive and encouraging manner. As far as mentoring, there isn't a program per se. There is a class that all instructors may attend to review the techniques to be taught the following week as well as to ask questions and bounce ideas off each other. We're a small school, so we all see each other at least twice a week in class and can work with each other. Because I teach children's classes, it's usually a team effort (if you've ever been alone teaching a kids' class you know how beneficial it is to have an additional pair of eyes and hands) and I have the benefit of working directly with my instructor. I occasionally have another student teacher partner, which makes me the senior instructor; that was a little scary at first, kind of like being a parent for the first time and wondering if you're doing things correctly, but we are good friends and I think the kids enjoy having female instructors for a change.

 

[kenpo tiger]

That may be the literal/technical translation but the semantic use, even in Japan for Sensei is for 'teacher.' Public school teachers are referred to as Sensei just as readily as martial arts instructors or dance instructors.... I don't know about the Japanese equivalent to Ph.D's or Grad. students though. There may not be one.

Now the interesting thing about that literal definition is how the Japanese culture views teachers. Teachers should be 'one who came before' or IMO someone who is merely farther along the training path. That doesn't automatically equate to "Master" but it does equate to what is very popularly 'buzz' termed "life long learner" in teacher educational training. Unfortunately, this idea of being a life long learner as opposed to the 'top dog' gets as much lip service in professional teaching circles as it seems to in Martial arts circles.

Exactly my point.:karate:

As an aside, should titles such as sensei, master, sabonim, sifu, etc. be used by a student if the one demanding (NOT earning - demanding) that the title be used isn't worthy of it in the student's opinion because of his/her actions, behavior, attitude???:angel:

 

[mj-hi-yah]

Learning hands on is one of the best ways IMO. THe 200 hour requirement is an excellent idea. Is there any mentorship/class planning guidance as part of these 200 hours? Do you critique the class with your instructor in an evaluative way so that you can improve on what you did well/work out what you could do better? It is really exciting to hear of teaching being so seriously promoted.

I think a combination of required teaching time AND guided instruction is a good way to go.

Hi Paul,



I belong to the same school as KT and, like you, I also happen to be a certified teacher. Sorry that I don’t have time to get into that part of the debate from earlier in this thread just now.



First this is a very interesting thread, and there's a lot more I'd like to contribute to it, but time is short at the moment, so I have to keep it brief. We have a class that is a black belt preparatory class one night a week, but as we were all preparing for our black belts and beginning our teaching at the same time the subject of much of my and my learning partners' questioning revolved around our teaching. Since we remember 90 percent of what we teach to others it also benefits us in preparing for our black belts to be knowledgeable teachers. Consequently our prep class has evolved into more of a teacher training class. This was very important to me because I was not comfortable presenting material to other students that I felt I barely had a grasp on myself. After teaching for the first few times you see how much you need to know and a black belt becomes more of a product of being a good teacher than a primary goal.



In addition to this class, I have spent the last year of my private lessons with my instructor working on a written compilation of all of the 170 self defense techniques that we need to learn for a black belt, and with my instructor's blessing have made them available for all of the students and teachers in the school to use as a reference and for consistency in learning/teaching. We all have different ways of doing things and it can be frustrating, and also ironically at the same time enriching, for students to work with different instructors. It is my goal to make it a little less frustrating by providing these notes.



We do discuss things after classes are over, especially if we see a need to, but there is not at this time any formal evaluation process. When we teach our instructor is always available to go over something with a student if we feel we need his help, and that is something I really appreciate and have called on him from time to time to do. I'm not sure how the other instructors feel about it, maybe KT can speak to this, but I would like to see a little more guidance from my instructor on drills, but LOL he tells me I make him work hard :uhyeah:...so one thing at a time. I do enjoy the freedom to try different things though, but wouldn't mind a little more guidance in that department.



I would also like to see him develop a school library of reference materials for all to use including video tapes (which he's agreed to make with me, but we have time conflicts at the moment), but again *hee hee* one thing at a time.



MJ :asian:

 

[loki09789]

Hi Paul,



I belong to the same school as KT and, like you, I also happen to be a certified teacher. Sorry that I don’t have time to get into that part of the debate from earlier in this thread just now.



First this is a very interesting thread, and there's a lot more I'd like to contribute to it, but time is short at the moment, so I have to keep it brief. We have a class that is a black belt preparatory class one night a week, but as we were all preparing for our black belts and beginning our teaching at the same time the subject of much of my and my learning partners' questioning revolved around our teaching. Since we remember 90 percent of what we teach to others it also benefits us in preparing for our black belts to be knowledgeable teachers. Consequently our prep class has evolved into more of a teacher training class. This was very important to me because I was not comfortable presenting material to other students that I felt I barely had a grasp on myself. After teaching for the first few times you see how much you need to know and a black belt becomes more of a product of being a good teacher than a primary goal.



In addition to this class, I have spent the last year of my private lessons with my instructor working on a written compilation of all of the 170 self defense techniques that we need to learn for a black belt, and with my instructor's blessing have made them available for all of the students and teachers in the school to use as a reference and for consistency in learning/teaching. We all have different ways of doing things and it can be frustrating, and also ironically at the same time enriching, for students to work with different instructors. It is my goal to make it a little less frustrating by providing these notes.



We do discuss things after classes are over, especially if we see a need to, but there is not at this time any formal evaluation process. When we teach our instructor is always available to go over something with a student if we feel we need his help, and that is something I really appreciate and have called on him from time to time to do. I'm not sure how the other instructors feel about it, maybe KT can speak to this, but I would like to see a little more guidance from my instructor on drills, but LOL he tells me I make him work hard :uhyeah:...so one thing at a time. I do enjoy the freedom to try different things though, but wouldn't mind a little more guidance in that department.



I would also like to see him develop a school library of reference materials for all to use including video tapes (which he's agreed to make with me, but we have time conflicts at the moment), but again *hee hee* one thing at a time.



MJ :asian:

HOLY COW! This sounds really great. Is this something that your instructor did on his own or is it part of an organizational program? Good stuff.

 

[mj-hi-yah]

HOLY COW! This sounds really great. Is this something that your instructor did on his own or is it part of an organizational program? Good stuff.

He initiated the black belt prep class and the rest has evolved from our needs within the class. IMO he's a great teacher himself - very capable, patient and caring so he was receptive to our requests. I would actually like to see him rename that class teacher training and also allow a class for the physical preparation for getting a black belt, as that part of that class has given way to the teacher training (although we train the techniques hard in that class).

 

[pete]

hey mj,

gotta say i'm on the other side of the universe from you on this one. standardized notes can lead to a homoginized approach, where techniques and forms turn into the hokey-pokey... you know, put your right foot in, take your right foot out... motion without purpose, music without soul.

rather than that, i like to go with a looser model, one where the student learns how to move with consistency and see the underlying principles that are introduced at one level and are extrapolated as one progresses through the system. being less concerned with getting each movement correct as written, but to have it all make sense and develop a pattern for executing them. in the long run, this internalizes the system and eliminates the memorization. the correct movements have a habit of manifesting themselves when the principles are adhered to.

interestingly enough, everyone will have a different way of doing things, and in my opinion, we have all been taught a little differently by our instructor. this is a good thing, and a good thing made better as the strengths and desires of each student are exemplified in their individual technique.

also, i have always taught ALL of my classes without our head instructor being on the premises. i felt funny initially, but he assured me that he was confident in my ability and always got good feedback afterwards. now i see how that was the right call on his part, and have come to appreciate the total freedom and trust. i work hard to prepare for my classes, and offer the students who attend a piece of myself in addition to the material.

the beauty of it is now the lower belts have the opportunity to learn the same material differently from several of us, and rather than be frustrated, be encouraged to explore what works best for them.

see ya on the mats...

pete.

 

[kenpo tiger]

Okay you two little chatterers (and people say I talk too much!)

First of all, Pete, you know I side with you on the issue of 'standardizing' the techs we learn by writing them down and distributing them. MJ, while I appreciate your doing that and sharing the fruits of your labors with us all, I have been keeping my own journal of the techs since I started kenpo and refer to it when necessary. Of late I've adopted more of Pete's approach because I've found, like he has, that we've all been taught a little differently. Also, since I have trained in both Japanese- and Korean-based ma, I look at things a bit differently than you both do. You have the benefit of input from the shotokan and aikido side, and Pete from tai chi/qigong - and BOTH of you have the benefit of having ma spouses so you have great sounding boards - and practice partners on-site.

You also have to look at it from the perspective that each of us is interested in and concentrates upon different aspects of kenpo when we teach. I've learned a lot from you both by attending the classes you teach. I have the benefit of having always taught children in my past arts and am most fortunate that I am permitted to continue to do so in kenpo.

As to the bb prep class versus a teaching training class, I agree that both are indicated in our curriculum, if only for providing a forum in which those of us 'prospectives' can practice and have the benefit of our instructor's input.
Just by the way, I think we do pretty well on our own, but it's good to hear it from the top.:samurai:

 

[mj-hi-yah]

hey mj,

gotta say i'm on the other side of the universe from you on this one. standardized notes can lead to a homoginized approach, where techniques and forms turn into the hokey-pokey... you know, put your right foot in, take your right foot out... motion without purpose, music without soul.

rather than that, i like to go with a looser model, one where the student learns how to move with consistency and see the underlying principles that are introduced at one level and are extrapolated as one progresses through the system. being less concerned with getting each movement correct as written, but to have it all make sense and develop a pattern for executing them. in the long run, this internalizes the system and eliminates the memorization. the correct movements have a habit of manifesting themselves when the principles are adhered to.

interestingly enough, everyone will have a different way of doing things, and in my opinion, we have all been taught a little differently by our instructor. this is a good thing, and a good thing made better as the strengths and desires of each student are exemplified in their individual technique.

also, i have always taught ALL of my classes without our head instructor being on the premises. i felt funny initially, but he assured me that he was confident in my ability and always got good feedback afterwards. now i see how that was the right call on his part, and have come to appreciate the total freedom and trust. i work hard to prepare for my classes, and offer the students who attend a piece of myself in addition to the material.

the beauty of it is now the lower belts have the opportunity to learn the same material differently from several of us, and rather than be frustrated, be encouraged to explore what works best for them.

see ya on the mats...

pete.

LOL... I figured as much, and that is what makes the world go around my friend. While initially there may not be soul in the music at the early stages of learning there is certainly purpose behind the music. I do not believe that correct movements manifest themselves, especially for beginning students in the mechanical phase. Some students find it challenging enough to simply coordinate their hand and foot movements let alone be able to grasp a principle behind that movement. You can present it along the way but I believe it is best absorbed after the movement is properly learned and this goes especially for the kinesthetic learner, for them this is most important as they learn through physical movement, and are unable to absorb nonphysical explanations until they have mastered the physical movement itself. In this case principles should not be introduced early on as it can hinder their learning. I think proper mechanics must be taught and practiced. Practice does not make perfect...perfect practice makes perfect. What is perfect execution for us as individuals may vary and should be allowed for however.

Don't get me wrong, I love the music. To me though, the music comes from understanding the basics and later the symphony is completed when you internalize those basics and are able to make it your own. Just as in music, notes are available for people who desire them for their learning and future creations and to give the students a common place from which to begin and a basis for creating in music a wonderful score, in MA technique that can be actualized.
Students are complaining about how differently they are being taught in our school (I was approached by two students just last night on this very subject). Please understand that their point of view is very different, because we have the luxury of being able to say that we did not have to learn from student instructors, and while occasionally our instructor may have refined or changed something in a technique there was usually good reason attached to that change and he was our only point of reference for all of our learning. As well, he has become much more consistent in his teaching as he has evolved in his learning. Also being that he is the primary instructor/evaluator of your skills as a student in his school we all must demonstrate a certain amount of proficiency of techniques on a test for him. This becomes a bit more difficult for the student to grasp when they are taught things in completely different ways. It may be difficult for them to see the value in their exposure to different teachers at this point, because the frustration for them comes when they are expected to demonstrate their techniques for our instructor and are shown corrections by him. Unlearning something that has been fully committed to memory is the most difficult thing for a student to do.
In addition, I am most comfortable with my instructor being available for me as a teacher. As the owner of our school he is the teacher's teacher, and I will always check with him when I have a question. I feel I would be doing my students a disservice if I didn't. On occasion when he was not available I held off on presenting something if I was not sure of it. Our teacher need not be on the premises for you to know that if you have a question his door is always open. When I approach him it is usually after a class is over, but for the few times I've had major questions I'm glad he's there on the nights I teach.

I agree with you on one thing, that the students should be encouraged to explore what works for them. I think they do get something out of learning from us all, but it's important especially for beginners to have a common reference point from which to begin. There is time for the beautiful music to be made later on...just like that fourth grade band concert I had the pleasure of hearing this year!



Yes Pete, see ya on the mats...

MJ :asian:

 

[mj-hi-yah]

First of all, Pete, you know I side with you on the issue of 'standardizing' the techs we learn by writing them down and distributing them. MJ, while I appreciate your doing that and sharing the fruits of your labors with us all, I have been keeping my own journal of the techs since I started kenpo and refer to it when necessary.

I totally encourage you to do so! We learn from taking our own notes. I know I told you when I first shared with you, as I tell everyone, but I'll say it again...you should always take your own notes.
MJ:asian:

 

[Tgace]

While all this stuff is related to leadership and is important, I think that "Leadership" should be defined..The Army defines it as

Leadership is influencing people—by providing purpose, direction, and motivation—while operating to accomplish the mission and improving the organization.

http://www.adtdl.army.mil/cgi-bin/atdl.dll/fm/22-100/ch1.htm#1-4

Is an excellent resource for leadership training/issues.

 

[mj-hi-yah]

While all this stuff is related to leadership and is important, I think that "Leadership" should be defined..The Army defines it as



http://www.adtdl.army.mil/cgi-bin/atdl.dll/fm/22-100/ch1.htm#1-4

Thanks for the definition...obviously in our school we all care about these things on this we can hopefully all agree!