Kosho Shorei Ryu

[Xue Sheng]

I have done mainly Chinese Martial arts for the last several years, Tai Chi and internal Kung Fu, but I started with Japanese Martial Arts and I recently came across Kosho Shorei Ryu kempo karate and did some reading about it. So far I like what I read

I was wondering if anyone could give me any insight to Kosho Shorei Ryu kempo karate?

There is a school near my home and I was just wondering what other people thought about this style of Karate

Thanks

 

[Danjo]

Wasn't that Robert Trias' art?

 

[kenpojujitsu]

No, Trias invented Shuri Ryu, after seeing a brief martial arts demo somewhere in the orient and getting some training from some Americans later on.

Kosho Shuri is the creation of James Mitose who studied Karate and Jujitsu in Hawaii then invented some wild story about his family being an old line of Samurai and all the docuemntation was lost when the temple was destroyed.

Actually, the Kosho Shuri has some good technique - just bogus history.

Mitose and Trias are kind of linked though as both of thier fairy tales involve 10th Dans given to them by famous teachers and made up relationships with Choki Motobu.

 

[Flying Crane]

No, Trias invented Shuri Ryu, after seeing a brief martial arts demo somewhere in the orient and getting some training from some Americans later on.

Kosho Shuri is the creation of James Mitose who studied Karate and Jujitsu in Hawaii then invented some wild story about his family being an old line of Samurai and all the docuemntation was lost when the temple was destroyed.

Actually, the Kosho Shuri has some good technique - just bogus history.

Mitose and Trias are kind of linked though as both of thier fairy tales involve 10th Dans given to them by famous teachers and made up relationships with Choki Motobu.

I'm curious to know how you know it is all bogus?

 

[Grenadier]

No, Trias invented Shuri Ryu, after seeing a brief martial arts demo somewhere in the orient and getting some training from some Americans later on.

Your source? I would be quite interested in seeing these tidbits of information. The senior sensei of the style that trained under him seem to be rather excellent Karate-ka.

Just as a bit of history, Trias trained under Tung Gee Hsing, Hoy Yuan Ping, and Yasuhiro Konishi. While it's true he did get some training from fellow American martial artists (such as Roy Oshiro), your above statement seems a bit... abbreviated.

 

[BlackCatBonz]

No, Trias invented Shuri Ryu, after seeing a brief martial arts demo somewhere in the orient and getting some training from some Americans later on.

Kosho Shuri is the creation of James Mitose who studied Karate and Jujitsu in Hawaii then invented some wild story about his family being an old line of Samurai and all the docuemntation was lost when the temple was destroyed.

Actually, the Kosho Shuri has some good technique - just bogus history.

Mitose and Trias are kind of linked though as both of thier fairy tales involve 10th Dans given to them by famous teachers and made up relationships with Choki Motobu.

1. Mitose never claimed that motobu was his uncle.......that was fabricated by someone that assumed something because motobu's picture was in mitose's book.
2. the jury is still out on the origins of kosho......and btw, if you're practicing kempo...any kempo in north america, say, "thank you james mitose."
3. Mitose never claimed his family was samurai.........not in any book, or any stories i have read. this is more wishful thinking.
4. its kosho shorei kempo....and robert trias taught shuri ryu karate.
5. kosho does not have techniques.

good try though.......

 

[Flying Crane]

5. kosho does not have techniques.

That's interesting. What does it have?

 

[BlackCatBonz]

everything we do in kosho is based on principle.
there are no set techniques.......you might look at a situation and then pick apart and apply certain principles to it.

 

[BlackCatBonz]

click on the skski.net link in my sig.

 

[Flying Crane]

1
2. the jury is still out on the origins of kosho

At some point, I think we all need to ask "so what?" All martial arts were created at some point in time by PEOPLE. Some were created long ago, some were created not so long ago. Those currently in existence are still changing and evolving, and new arts spring forth from them. As long as the art is effective and useful and logical, and it wasn't just a repackaging of something that already existed, and it wasn't done to stoke the ego of the new "Grandmaster" who created it, then who cares how or when it came into being?

I haven't studied, nor had the opportunity to see Kosho in action so I cannot comment on its effectiveness. But assuming it is effective, its origins shouldn't really matter all that much. It is clearly an established system.

 

[BlackCatBonz]

like any system.....it either works for you or doesnt.
its not the easiest system for people to pick up simply because it does not have techniques that you could catalogue and file.
The people that knew mitose said he was an excellent martial artist that had a style that was somewhat unorthodox but still effective.
the people that knew mitose and studied under him, that eventually had a problem with him, say he sucked......but still brag about studying under him.
another point of contention for people is that kosho ryu is not mentioned in the bugei ryuha daijiten.........big deal....there are lots of arts out there and it would be impossible to catalogue every one......nothing is 100%.
if you ever have a chance to go to a seminar with bruce juchnik hanshi, check it out.....but keep an open mind.
its not for everyone.

 

[Martial Tucker]

I have done mainly Chinese Martial arts for the last several years, Tai Chi and internal Kung Fu, but I started with Japanese Martial Arts and I recently came across Kosho Shorei Ryu kempo karate and did some reading about it. So far I like what I read

I was wondering if anyone could give me any insight to Kosho Shorei Ryu kempo karate?

There is a school near my home and I was just wondering what other people thought about this style of Karate

Thanks

My primary style is TKD, but I have met and trained a little with the current head of the Kosho system, Bruce Juchnik. There is much argument over Juchnik's history/relationship with Mitose, and I have no interest either way in the argument. Regarding Kosho specifically as a style, it is my feeling (BASED ON JUST A SMALL AMOUNT OF BACKGROUND OBSERVATION AND INVOLVEMENT) that Kosho is on the "softer" end of the karate spectrum, with more emphasis on evasion and circular motion than most. It seems to be a "reactive" style rather than attacking, in that you react to your opponents attack, and counter with a series of rapid moves, each determined "on the fly" by what your opponent does.


Again, this is a very general, and largely uneducated observation. I invite and encourage any Kosho practitioners to feel free to modify or contradict what I have said.

 

[BlackCatBonz]

My primary style is TKD, but I have met and trained a little with the current head of the Kosho system, Bruce Juchnik. There is much argument over Juchnik's history/relationship with Mitose, and I have no interest either way in the argument. Regarding Kosho specifically as a style, it is my feeling (BASED ON JUST A SMALL AMOUNT OF BACKGROUND OBSERVATION AND INVOLVEMENT)
1. that Kosho is on the "softer" end of the karate spectrum, with more emphasis on evasion and circular motion than most.

2.It seems to be a "reactive" style rather than attacking, in that you react to your opponents attack,

and 3.counter with a series of rapid moves, each determined "on the fly" by what your opponent does.


Again, this is a very general, and largely uneducated observation. I invite and encourage any Kosho practitioners to feel free to modify or contradict what I have said.

1. You are correct about kosho being soft.....it is more akin to aikido but with hitting, throwing and escaping.

2. Kosho is considered a preparatory art, not reactionary. this is one of the hallmark principles of the style.....you stay one or 2 steps ahead of your opponent. How you may ask? its all in understanding kamae and the escaping arts.

3. Kosho practitioners are known for having quick hands and feet....kind of like a boxer. we dont practice set techniques for this reason......this is where it may appear that kosho is reactionary.....you act according to your opponents level of commitment to his attack.

mitose states in what is self defense? " Kenpo art is similar to judo atemi, but the art and philosophy is different. How to maneuver and have your opponent place himself into a position to be attacked is taught by Kenpo."

he also states, "It is the promotion of the offensive power through the rational use of spirit and body."

kosho is all about offense.......but its focus is self defense......not sport.

 

[kenpojujitsu]

"and Yasuhiro Konishi"
This isnot true and has always been denied by Konishi Sensei.
Trias and his people used to claim that trias got his 10th Dan from Konishi. That has always been known to be a lie. Now some of Trias' students claim he got his 10th Dan from Gogen Yamaguchi.
His students may be good at what they do, that does not mean Trias was not a liar and a hustler.

Sorry for the mis-spellings. I realized it after I was done but didn't get back to edit.

Mitose did claim to come from a Samurai family. He said that when he was 5 he was sent back to Japan to train in the ancient arts at the family temple. At the start of WWII he said he felt patriotic towards America and wanted to help the war effort so he started teaching the previously secret art of self defense. His claim was that the arts were traditionally only taught during times of war.

There were always Asian martial arts in Hawaii, Polynesian arts too. "Karate" was introduced very early on, only it was called Kenpo or Kempo. In 1934 Chojun Miyagi visited Honolulu and the article in the Honolululu Advertiser idetified his art as "Karate Kempo". The term Kenpo had been in use in Okinawa and Hawaii before Mitose came along.

Mitose likely trained with some of Miyagi's students and there were even some of Motobu's students who made to the islands. He may have trained with some of them. He also learned some Jujitsu from Henry Okazaki. I have seen group photos with Mitose in the background. Although since his conviction for rackateering and conspiracy to commit murder, the Okazak family has taken steps to distance themselves from Mitose and now say he was never a student.

I have lineage to Mitose, but he can be an embarrassment at times.
He was an odd fellow who also walked around dressed as a Catholic Priest pretending to be some mystic Oriental sage, babbling in gibberish that his followers took as being to deep for ordinary people to understand.

Like I said, you will find some good technique, but a lot of nonsense. Like the "we don't have techniques" statement. Good luck with it.

 

[Flying Crane]

Once again, how do you know what you claim?

You call Trias a liar and hustler. Please substantiate that.

You claim membership in a kenpo lineage. What is it, and how does it substantiate your claims?

You claim Kosho doesn't have techniques. A kosho practitioner here has refuted that. How do you substantiate your claim?

Your claims may well be correct, I certainly don't know. But you are also levelling some strong accusations and you may be starting a brawl. When you make claims like this, you better be prepared to back up what you say. Give us your proof.

 

[Martial Tucker]

I was wondering if anyone could give me any insight to Kosho Shorei Ryu kempo karate?

I guess this is none of my business, and I'm not a moderator, but this poor guy asked for basic info on Kosho, and in minutes it's turned into a food fight.
I'm guessing that the bickering is not the "insight to Kosho" that Xue Sheng (who originated this thread) was hoping for.

 

[Flying Crane]

I guess this is none of my business, and I'm not a moderator, but this poor guy asked for basic info on Kosho, and in minutes it's turned into a food fight.
I'm guessing that the bickering is not the "insight to Kosho" that Xue Sheng (who originated this thread) was hoping for.

you're right, man, sorry. I just hate to see bad manners on the forums.

 

[kenpojujitsu]

You call Trias a liar and hustler. Please substantiate that.
Trias made a lot of claims that never added up. Like learning an ancient form of Karate from a Chinese guy. He later claimed to have gotten his 10th Dan from Konishi. At the time that WWII was raging on, we are supposed to believe that he had time to study and train to become a Karate master. That in itself is hard to believe. Others doing research have found that at the time he claimed to be training in Okinawa, his military records showed he was on a ship in the Solomon Islands. I doubt there were many Karate Masters (Chinese or Okinawan) on a U.S. Navy Ship in the Solomon Islands.
Like most others of his kind, what you find in the Trias history is an ever changing story that continues to change each time one of the myths is shot down. Like the time that changed the 10th Dan ranking from Konishi to Yamaguchi.

You claim membership in a kenpo lineage. What is it, and how does it substantiate your claims?
Like I said, back to Mitose. Also to Okazaki. It substantiates my claims because of the history passed down from those who were there and knew Mitose.

You claim Kosho doesn't have techniques. A kosho practitioner here has refuted that. How do you substantiate your claim?
I did not claim that kosho had no techniques. That was someone else. I said that statement was typical of the nonsense found in Kosho Shorei. It's just more of people making idiots out of themselves by pushing the pseudo-intelelctual pshych-babble that is typical of Mitose and those who cling to his fantasies.

 

[Martial Tucker]

you're right, man, sorry. I just hate to see bad manners on the forums.

Agreed, and my comment was not directed at just you. Just making a general
statement....

 

[Xue Sheng]

I guess this is none of my business, and I'm not a moderator, but this poor guy asked for basic info on Kosho, and in minutes it's turned into a food fight.
I'm guessing that the bickering is not the "insight to Kosho" that Xue Sheng (who originated this thread) was hoping for.

All I origianlly wanted was basic info, I was considering looking into the school that is near me. Now I am sorry I asked the question and started the problem