Korean Stick Arts

Discussion in 'Korean Martial Arts - General' started by isshinryu guy, Jan 28, 2010.

  1. arnisador

    arnisador Sr. Grandmaster

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    No--that is a swing that hits with the flat of the stick (vs. what would be the edge if it were a sword), and that is a different type of wrist motion--around the axis of the forearm, whereas the KMA version is in line with it (more like a cracking-the-whip motion).
     
  2. miguksaram

    miguksaram Master of Arts

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    I have the stick fighting book by Echanis. While he was at one point a student of GM Lee's I do not believe these techniques were directly from the HRD system. I believe the heart of this was Echanis's special forces training with the weapons and not directly related to the HRD system. There was, to my knowledge, any specific Korean stick fighting system like that of arnis.
     
  3. Don Daly

    Don Daly Yellow Belt

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    I must admit after doing some recent searches on the internet that it looks like many of the Korean stick arts that I have seen recently appear to be copies of others, and I have to admit that in many cases the Korean arts may be more additions from Japan/China than original Korean (Taekkyon is the exception). There are however, still some stick arts like those of Hwarang Do and the Dan Bong arts of Kuk Sul Won that are quite distinctive. Echanis' Dan Bong techniques are closer to Arnis than the Kuk Sul Won techniques. The Kuk Sul Won seem to be very different than anyone else.
    I am very interested as to where you believe most of Echanis' stick techniques came from if not Korea. I personally add nightstick techniques from a LAPD seminar on the nightstick that I received as a Law Enforcement Explorer Scout when I was in High School in LA. I also add many additional Jung Bong techniques that I learned from a visiting Tang Soo Do student that shared them with us at the University of Wyoming. The three groups of techniques all fit very well, but I do not know where the nightstick techniques originally came from. This would be very interesting for further study, but right now my extra time is spent putting my interpretation of So Rim Jang Kwon on the Tang Soo Do forum. Thanks for the insights.
     
  4. Stickgrappler

    Stickgrappler Purple Belt

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    Hello:

    *bows deeply*

    Speaking of the Dan Bong (short stick) - is there any concrete documentation in print saying how it came about? Or its first usage?


    In the link provided by DennisBreene above:

    http://www.turtlepress.com/articles/traditional_korean_weapons.aspx

    there's no mention of the Dan Bong in the Muye Dobo Tongji.

    Thank you in advance.

    Very truly yours in the MA,

    ~sg
     
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  5. Balrog

    Balrog Master of Arts

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    If you look at the history of martial arts weapons, most of them were farm tools or household implements originally. For example, the narrow-handle, wide-body Korean stick (Bahng Mahng Ee) was originally a laundry tool.

    I agree that there is no formal historical background for the use of the stick per se. Most stick work these days appears to be based on Filipino styles.
     
  6. Instructor

    Instructor Master Black Belt

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    And I think that is A-okay! I think Filipino styles have pretty much perfected war with a stick.
     
  7. miguksaram

    miguksaram Master of Arts

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    You will not see any mention of it in the MYDBTJ. That book dealt with weapons that were used for military combat. So outside of the kwonbup, and I believe staff, it dealt with bladed weapons of different sorts.

    I would think most "Korean" origins would be through hapkido and its Aiki-jitsu connection.
     
  8. Don Daly

    Don Daly Yellow Belt

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    Well, I surveyed Youtube for stick fighting to see what I could find that was similar to the Korean Jung Bong techniques that I learned. It turns out that the closest thing I could find on Youtube was Doyle Clan Irish Stick Fighting. The Korean techniques that I learned looked about 75% Doyle style and 25% Hanbo basics from Japanese Hanbojitsu. The energy of it was definitely more like the Doyle style. Other Irish stick fighting styles were closer to the hooked cane techniques that I have seen. The Doyle system seems to also have some more advanced techniques very similar to Hapkido locks and holds. Martial talk has a thread on its Western martial arts forum called "Bataireacht" which is the Irish word for their stick fighting art.

    Don Daly
     
  9. arnisador

    arnisador Sr. Grandmaster

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    The Doyle material is very interesting and I would love to have a chance to play with them but it does look to me like there may have been more recent outside influences on it in addition to the original material--I wonder how representative it truly is of Irish stick-fighting of 200 years ago?
     
  10. Don Daly

    Don Daly Yellow Belt

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    According to the sources that I have seen. All the Irish stick-fighting systems are trying to stay true to the original techniques passed down since their main motivation in teaching them is cultural preservation. That being said, Doyle himself adds techniques using a sliding hand, as in Korean/Japanese smooth stick systems, but once learned, he informs his students that they are not part of the original and shows them comparable released hand techniques. This is because (as he explains and demonstrates) a sliding hand does not work on a traditional Irish blackthorn walking stick (long shillelagh) due to its thorny/ruff surface. Doyle is also a master of Kung Fu, but he seams to be careful about showing what is authentic vs. his own modifications.
    As far as Koreans/Irish or other oppressed peoples underground cultures. I think we should take their word on their own history unless they have been proven wrong. No oppressed culture is going to have documentation, since that is one of the first things a conquering culture will destroy when they are trying to make good "Japenese" or "Englishmen" out of them. Requiring them to document everything that has been passed on is neither fair nor does it show a lack of prejudice. I would rather take the word of the oppressed than the oppressor on any such issue. This is one reason I will listen to the Japanese American who survived unlawful imprisonment during WWII. This should never happen again.

    Don Daly
     
  11. arnisador

    arnisador Sr. Grandmaster

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    There's no doubt that modern KMAs overwhelmingly come from Japanese systems and were developed post-WW2. They've developed into their own systems, but that's the basis.
     
  12. Don Daly

    Don Daly Yellow Belt

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    If you do not know Taekkyon, which is definitely pre-Japanese, then you may not realize that it is definitely one of the roots to many of Korea's eclectic arts. I personally think that it should replace taekwondo as Korean's national sport. You can find a number of different videos showing Taekkyon training and matches on youtube.

    Meanwhile, I thought this thread was about Korean stick arts, not Japanese. Just saying...

    Don Daly
     
  13. generalneon

    generalneon White Belt

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    I have heard about the Korean style called Tae Geuk Bong. I've seen the sticks, colored red and blue, and a poster showing the different exercises and strike points, but never seen them used in a match or in any exercises. Can't find any information on it online, either. There was some sort of seminar in my area for local tang soo do masters to learn about it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2013
  14. swordway

    swordway White Belt

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    This thread is probably dead but I live and train in South Korea (gojeon muye) and my school does do kon bong. The techniques are derived from the Muyedobotongji and like all MYDBTJ material, every school has its own way of interpreting the text.
     
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  15. Raymond

    Raymond Orange Belt

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    There's not much that I can add to this thread since I don't train in a stick or weapons art, but many of the traditional hard blocks often seem to be better suited to stick or weapon fighting rather than unarmed combat. Upward block, inner and outer block, low block, x-block etc can all be better suited to being either a hard block or strike (directly stopping the force of an attack) or a soft technique (to deflect, parry or trap a weapon). Even more obvious are many hand strikes such as hammer fists, knife hands, ridge hands and so on.

    If you use them in this way and also look at TKD, TSD, HKD etc as Korean arts then you can find Korean stick techniques. Definitely not a complete all encompassing stick or weapon system that you might find such as Kali or Escrima but easily enough to give the typical TKD/TSD/HKD student a leg up when armed with a stick against an untrained thug who has a pipe, wrench, stick or whatever.
     
  16. thanson02

    thanson02 Green Belt

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    From what I have seen, Korean MA history has been a mix of Chinese, Japanese, and various other sources. Many people seem to focus on liniage or authentic material. To be honest, my personal feelings are that what makes a Korean Martial Art is how it is done, not where it comes from.

    That being said, the Bongtoogi program in Hwa Rang Do has a lot if good stuff. I train in it, even took first place last year in our World Tournaments in the staff sparring division and placed in the others. Is it authentic???? Since it was recently developed to apply the HRD staff technique, I would say no, but it is effective and it certainly is Korean.

    Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk
     

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