"Korean athletes, who are physically inferior to Western counterparts"

[SPX]

I came here to the US when I was 2 with my family as refugees from the Vietnam war. I'm of Asian heritage, but I'm pretty much all-American culturally though I can speak my native tongue to a degree. I've visited Vietnam as an adult on vacation and I was struck by how different I am from people from the land of my birth. It's hard to explain, but they just think differently... Have different reactions to basic events... They're much more accepting of authority and governmental action than I am, raised in the southwest US.

That's interesting.

I guess I just feel like a lot of people who aren't of European descent don't really feel like the US is THEIR country. That disappoints me. I know that the country was founded by white folks but it belongs to us all today. We're all Americans and, in my opinion, should take pride in that.

 

[Gorilla]

I tend not to buy this argument...Tkd is Weight class sport...the only disadvantage might be in the heavyweight division!

This sport is about training and heart not genetics....the Koreans like the USA got beat because other countries out trained them.

 

[Jaeimseu]

I had heard interviews with Korean coaches many years ago that the time would come when western athletes were better at Taekwondo than Koreans because we are built genetically better. Something about higher muscle density or longer legs or something (as I said it was many years ago). Of course, when I heard it Korea was wiping the floor with everyone in every division so my response was something like "yeah, right".

Maybe, they were actually right. I don't know enough about human biology to talk effectively on physical differences between races and how they would affect specifically WTF Taekwondo competition.

I'm going to Korea in two weeks, maybe it'll be mentioned there or if it comes up I'll ask someone about it.

This is off topic, but if you will be in Seoul and have the time and inclination, you're welcome to stop by our dojang for a workout. Let me know if you're interested.

 

[rlobrecht]

I'm going to have to grab some Porterhouse steaks for dinner tonight, to be grilled to medium rare perfection, coated with my seasoning mixture (raw horseradish, crushed garlic, cracked peppercorns, seasoned salt, and olive oil).

Yum. That sounds good.

 

[dancingalone]

That's interesting.

I guess I just feel like a lot of people who aren't of European descent don't really feel like the US is THEIR country. That disappoints me. I know that the country was founded by white folks but it belongs to us all today. We're all Americans and, in my opinion, should take pride in that.

<shrugs> That hasn't been my personal experience. Many older Asian immigrants might keep to themselves and converse in their old langauges, but they love America. And why shouldn't they? They came here to avoid hardship and persecution at home, or to find opportunities for themselves and their children. One of the proudest moments in my parents' lives were when they swore the oath of allegiance during their naturalization ceremony.

We took a lot of pictures and went to eat at KFC afterwards. Can't get much more American than that.

 

[SPX]

<shrugs> That hasn't been my personal experience. Many older Asian immigrants might keep to themselves and converse in their old langauges, but they love America. And why shouldn't they? They came here to avoid hardship and persecution at home, or to find opportunities for themselves and their children. One of the proudest moments in my parents' lives were when they swore the oath of allegiance during their naturalization ceremony.

We took a lot of pictures and went to eat at KFC afterwards. Can't get much more American than that.

Ha ha, well I stand corrected. I didn't realize that KFC was involved.

But for real, that's a nice story. I've also heard that Jhoon Rhee was extremely patriotic.

 

[Grenadier]

I agree, that the MMA circuit isn't well-populated with Asian folks. You're not going to find too many people the likes of Okami, Kim, or going back a bit further, Sakuraba. I'm not certain, though, that this has more to do with physical advantages, but rather different rule sets?

So just out of curiosity--because I always wonder this when I run into ethnic Asians who were born in the States--do you consider yourself American or Korean?

You say you're an "American-born Korean" so it sounds like you identify more as Korean.

I'm American first, since I was born here. However, I'm also proud to have the Korean heritage as well, since I've truly enjoyed taking from both cultures, since there are strong points from both sides.


I guess the best way to experience it is to come down to one of my barbecues, where there are plenty of plates of bulgogi and kalbi floating around, as well as japjae (sauteed noodles), as well as my almost famous 6 pepper burgers, bratwursts, and hot dogs with the usual potato salad.

 

[Grenadier]

Thanks for the insight, Grenadier. However since TKD competition is based on weight classes, I'm not sure what difference it would make if Koreans tend to be smaller on average. Any given competitor should be roughly the same size as their opponent.

Agreed, that they should be about the same size. Where bone density plays a huge part, though, is when you have to endure various impacts. Back when I trained in Tae Kwon Do, we did some full contact sparring. My sparring partner was a bit larger than I was, but in terms of physical strength, we were about equal.

Where he had a big advantage, was when we sometimes would clash shin bones. Those bruises would go deeper into my legs, than his, and he'd recover a lot more quickly than I would. While I wouldn't feel it during sparring, I'd certainly feel it 18 hours later, when gingerly stepping my way across the college campus for a few days.

Also, the article indicated that Koreans would have inferior endurance and inferior ability to throw head kicks and spinning kicks. I'm not sure what justification there is for supposing any of those ideas.

I'm not sure on this either. I would speculate that either they used different training methods (maybe less emphasis on cardio), maybe someone had a different distribution of red / white muscle fibers. The first obviously isn't a racial issue, whereas the second could possibly have some effect; I'd have to see what the stats are on muscle fiber content for the various races.

 

[Jaeimseu]

That's interesting.

I guess I just feel like a lot of people who aren't of European descent don't really feel like the US is THEIR country. That disappoints me. I know that the country was founded by white folks but it belongs to us all today. We're all Americans and, in my opinion, should take pride in that.

I think this may come from the fact that being American is a nationality, while being Korean is an ethnicity.

 

[SPX]

I agree, that the MMA circuit isn't well-populated with Asian folks. You're not going to find too many people the likes of Okami, Kim, or going back a bit further, Sakuraba. I'm not certain, though, that this has more to do with physical advantages, but rather different rule sets?

I'm not sure. I actually think it might come down to two things:

1. Weight cutting. Asians tend to cut less weight (and sometimes cut almost none at all) and so are usually smaller than their Western counterparts on fight day.

2. Training methods. Training methods for MMA, especially in regard to wrestling, seem to be more advanced in the US. More and more Asian fighters are coming to the US for at least some of their training camps, including Okami, who started training with Sonnen after Sonnen beat him.

I had high hopes for a lot of Asians coming into the UFC, including Akiyama, Kid Yamamoto, Gomi, Omigawa and Denis Kang, but it seems like they just can't get it together. At least Okami and Kim are having a lot of success, and my boy Takeya Mizugaki is doing pretty well at bantamweight so long as he's not facing a top 7ish kind of guy.

And I guess Machida is half-Japanese, for whatever that is worth.

 

[SPX]

I think this may come from the fact that being American is a nationality, while being Korean is an ethnicity.

According to Wikipedia, "An ethnic group is a group of people whose members identify with each other through a common heritage, consisting of a common culture, including a shared language or dialect."

So yes, I guess Koreans would fit that description. But you also have to remember that a white guy with French parents could be born in Korea and he would be 100% Korean, despite having a different racial background than the majority of his fellow citizens.

Would you expect him to think of himself first and foremost as Korean or French?

 

[Jaeimseu]

According to Wikipedia, "An ethnic group is a group of people whose members identify with each other through a common heritage, consisting of a common culture, including a shared language or dialect."

So yes, I guess Koreans would fit that description. But you also have to remember that a white guy with French parents could be born in Korea and he would be 100% Korean, despite having a different racial background than the majority of his fellow citizens.

Would you expect him to think of himself first and foremost as Korean or French?

While this may be technically true, he wouldn't be seen as Korean by the vast majority of Koreans, regardless what he considered himself. A Korean born in another country with another nationality would be considered more Korean than the white guy. I don't mean that as a knock against Koreans. Korean society is a lot more homogeneous than in America or other diverse countries.

As for other ethnic groups, I can't say. But if you've ever seen, for example, a soccer game between the US and Mexico, there are often more Mexican flags on display than US flags, even when the game is being played in the states.

 

[SPX]

While this may be technically true, he wouldn't be seen as Korean by the vast majority of Koreans, regardless what he considered himself. A Korean born in another country with another nationality would be considered more Korean than the white guy. I don't mean that as a knock against Koreans. Korean society is a lot more homogeneous than in America or other diverse countries.

I can kind of understand that, but I guess I also feel it's kind of unfortunate. If I was born there, and considered it home, and considered it my culture, and considered my fellow Koreans my countrymen, then I would be disappointed that those feelings weren't reciprocated just because I looked different and my ancestors were from somewhere else.

After all, what would I know of France? Some stories my parents told me?

As for other ethnic groups, I can't say. But if you've ever seen, for example, a soccer game between the US and Mexico, there are often more Mexican flags on display than US flags, even when the game is being played in the states.

Also unfortunate, I think. Honestly, I feel like if you consider yourself Mexican first and American second, then go live in Mexico.

I respect all the athletes in the Olympics greatly, and in some sense cheer for all their successes, but of course I cheer loudest for the US, regardless of the race or ethnic background of the athletes who fly the flag. Even if they weren't even born in the US but came from somewhere else and have become citizens and call America their home now, I consider them as American as anyone else.

I guess, to me, that's what's beautiful about this country. If you love America or what it stands for (despite the fact that it's obviously not a perfect country), and want to be an American, then you can be. It's a melting pot made up of all kinds of different ingredients.

Just look at Arnold Schwarzenegger. Who's more American than him?

 

[Gorilla]

I have a multi cultural life and multi racial kids...In allot of ways I find the whole idea of racial disadvantage odd...my kids don't seem to have a problem because they are half Asian.

I don't think it matters...

 

[ATC]

I have a multi cultural life and multi racial kids...In allot of ways I find the whole idea of racial disadvantage odd...my kids don't seem to have a problem because they are half Asian.

I don't think it matters...

Ditto!

In a weight divided up sport, the only advantage or disadvantage is the training. Korea use to dominate, once the world caught up to "THEIR" training methods the playing field leveled out. They still brought home two medals and one of them being gold so those two obviously were not inferior to any others. The comment is just stupid.

Training consists of diet, mental, and the physical. So even the argument about more meat protein in Western societies is a faulty one. Once you are a top athlete (and you start your training for this at a pretty young age) you eat for enhancement of your body. Maybe the average person in Korea eats differently than the average person in the west, but all elite athletes pretty much eat the same. (That is for each given sport).

 

[ralphmcpherson]

Are there any physical attributes that would be of benefit in sport tkd? For example, being tall is beneficial in being a basketballer, speed over 20metres is beneficial to a rugby league player, natural flexibility is required for gymnastics etc. These things can be coached (other than height), but without a fair degree of natural ability you wont succeed at an elite level. Are there any natural attributes that would give an advantage in olympic tkd that would be more prodominent in one race over another?

 

[Gorilla]

Physical attributes that would make you successful in TKD are found in all ethic groups.