moromoro
2nd Black Belt
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do they teach throwing with out rotations???
Knife Throwing?
- Thread starter arnisador
- Start date
Sayoc Kali-bakal is an entire phase of training dedicated to projectile weapons. Best bet is to ask someone with a good deal of training in the system. I've seen some very deceptive stuff utilizing thrown blades in close quarters.
Cthulhu
Cthulhu
moromoro
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ok
that was a question for people who know about sayoc training or who train in the style?
that was a question for people who know about sayoc training or who train in the style?
I do train in Sayoc, but I'm a pretty raw newbie in the system so can't really address this question.
Mike
Mike
moromoro
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hi pesilat
could you explain what your training has been like in sayoc?
how is their garrote work?
thanks
terry
could you explain what your training has been like in sayoc?
how is their garrote work?
thanks
terry
My training in Sayoc has been incredibly limited. Basically, the "3 of 9" template (check out sayoc.com for more info on what that is) and a couple of drills.
As far as I know, Sayoc Kali (that I'm training in) doesn't have any garrote work or stick work. It's "all blade, all the time."
It does, however, have some whip work (which I also do some of) but it's still considered "blade" work because the motions used with the whip are very similar to those used throwing projectiles and the whip work can be used to improve your accuracy with projectiles.
However, there is also the "Sayoc Fighting System" which does have stick work, does do "combat whip" (i.e.: learning to fight with the whip instead of focusing on the whip as a training tool for projectiles), etc. I have not had any training in this system at all.
I'm not sure about all the different branches in the Sayoc family of systems. I've only been rather peripherally involved in Sayoc for a few months and my actual training in it has been, at best, very sporadic and limited.
Afraid I'm not much help.
Your best bet for really finding out more about their system(s) would be to go check out their website at http://www.sayoc.com and ask them on their forum.
Mike
This is they way I've heard it, and I'm sure there are those who can correct me if I'm wrong:
The current Sayoc Kali (or Sayoc Kali-silak) headed by GT Chris Sayoc is all blade, all the time, though as previously mentioned, they do train with the whip.
"Bo" Sayoc, now retired, taught a version of Sayoc Kali that didn't focus on just knifework, but stickwork as well. I've heard this system called Sayoc Fighting System, but more generally as Sayoc Kali.
Mike Sayoc (Chris's brother?) teaches a system that I believe is similar to Bo Sayoc's system.
If anyone has more accurate info, please correct me
Cthulhu
The current Sayoc Kali (or Sayoc Kali-silak) headed by GT Chris Sayoc is all blade, all the time, though as previously mentioned, they do train with the whip.
"Bo" Sayoc, now retired, taught a version of Sayoc Kali that didn't focus on just knifework, but stickwork as well. I've heard this system called Sayoc Fighting System, but more generally as Sayoc Kali.
Mike Sayoc (Chris's brother?) teaches a system that I believe is similar to Bo Sayoc's system.
If anyone has more accurate info, please correct me
Cthulhu
moromoro
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thanks mike
well how often do you train in sayoc?
terry
well how often do you train in sayoc?
terry
I do some Sayoc about once a week. But usually that's just me and some of my guys going over the material that I have. I only get to train in Sayoc with my instructor about once a month because of our schedules.
Mike
moromoro
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what type of material??
sayoc videos?
i have never seen this art, is there any vids on the web site you recommend?
thanks
terry
sayoc videos?
i have never seen this art, is there any vids on the web site you recommend?
thanks
terry
The material I mentioned previously. The "3 of 9" template and a couple of basic drills.
I believe there are some vids on the web site in the "Multimedia" section.
Mike
moromoro
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thanks
[email protected]
Green Belt
Hello Everyone,
I have been lurking here for awhile but finally had the time to start posting back some replies! I have been throwing projectiles for close to 20+ years. Everything from screwdrivers, shurikens to axes and blades. I have also been involved in Sayoc Kali for the last three years now, so I hope to be able to answer a few of your questions.
Projectile use in Sayoc Kali is used for a variety of reasons, primarily it is used as a method to gauge an opponent's level of skill and as a method of entry. Projectiles can be launched from 30 feet to right on top of your opponent in the grappling or tie up position.
As for non flip throws, yes they can be used, I back out to the 1/2 turn and can still get a projectile to non rotate, especially underhand throws. Most people discount the value of a projectile because they are not familiar or prepared to do this in their fighting tactics. They may not have a projectile to throw, other than their blade, or they are not familiar with throwing a projectile in a conflict. If you have no reference to the tactic it will not be pulled off during combat. Remember a projectile can be anything you want to throw including a blade, and who really cares if it sticks in, if it doesn't it can still inflict damage, also it can still give you an opening to flee or enter depending on the situation.
For those familiar with Sayoc Kali, take your # 3 of 9 Vital template and launch your blades at each of the Vital targets. This will give you a feel for some of the aspects contained in Sayoc Kali's use of projectiles.
Gumagalang
Guro Steve L- Kayan Dalawa Guro Sayoc Kali
I have been lurking here for awhile but finally had the time to start posting back some replies! I have been throwing projectiles for close to 20+ years. Everything from screwdrivers, shurikens to axes and blades. I have also been involved in Sayoc Kali for the last three years now, so I hope to be able to answer a few of your questions.
Projectile use in Sayoc Kali is used for a variety of reasons, primarily it is used as a method to gauge an opponent's level of skill and as a method of entry. Projectiles can be launched from 30 feet to right on top of your opponent in the grappling or tie up position.
As for non flip throws, yes they can be used, I back out to the 1/2 turn and can still get a projectile to non rotate, especially underhand throws. Most people discount the value of a projectile because they are not familiar or prepared to do this in their fighting tactics. They may not have a projectile to throw, other than their blade, or they are not familiar with throwing a projectile in a conflict. If you have no reference to the tactic it will not be pulled off during combat. Remember a projectile can be anything you want to throw including a blade, and who really cares if it sticks in, if it doesn't it can still inflict damage, also it can still give you an opening to flee or enter depending on the situation.
For those familiar with Sayoc Kali, take your # 3 of 9 Vital template and launch your blades at each of the Vital targets. This will give you a feel for some of the aspects contained in Sayoc Kali's use of projectiles.
Gumagalang
Guro Steve L- Kayan Dalawa Guro Sayoc Kali
Arthur
Blue Belt
I second everything Airyu said... but I come from a Systema perspective.
Arthur
PS Longtime no see Steve... now come help revitalize some other boards;-)
Arthur
PS Longtime no see Steve... now come help revitalize some other boards;-)
K
KenpoDragon
Guest
I practice throwing knives and shurikens (stars) every once in a while, but the knife works better in my hand, than in the air, if you know what I mean.:asian:
[email protected]
Green Belt
Hello Arthur,
I hope you are well!! Yes, I see the other board needs some help, I'll do what I can to help out.
Gumagalang
Guro Steve L.
I hope you are well!! Yes, I see the other board needs some help, I'll do what I can to help out.
Gumagalang
Guro Steve L.
K
krys
Guest
Hello there,
I trained in throwing knives when I learned silat in Malaysia.
The pesilat there know how to throw knives from different positions, even sending one that is sticking in the ground into an opponent by kicking it (you have to be blody good to do that...). Most of the basic throws were done with the intention to finish an opponent who was on the ground (before he could roll away).
It was OK during training but i would not do it i na real fight.... the big problem is that the knive may not stick into a moving target....
and you don't want to loose a knive in a fight...
I once got a good shot throwing a stick (had two) at the face of an opponent, that ended the fight, but you cannot train that with your partners (may loose an eye), and loosing your stick is not a good idea.....
Mabuhay ang filipino Silat at Arnis.
I trained in throwing knives when I learned silat in Malaysia.
The pesilat there know how to throw knives from different positions, even sending one that is sticking in the ground into an opponent by kicking it (you have to be blody good to do that...). Most of the basic throws were done with the intention to finish an opponent who was on the ground (before he could roll away).
It was OK during training but i would not do it i na real fight.... the big problem is that the knive may not stick into a moving target....
and you don't want to loose a knive in a fight...
I once got a good shot throwing a stick (had two) at the face of an opponent, that ended the fight, but you cannot train that with your partners (may loose an eye), and loosing your stick is not a good idea.....
Mabuhay ang filipino Silat at Arnis.
S
Shadow Hunter
Guest
Think outside the box for pete's sake!!!!
Just to give you some background, I have to travel all over the world. Ever try to get anything more than sharpened pieces of metal past a customs agent? And if you can get something like a gun, are you willing/able to get rid of it when you leave?
Here is how I look at it,
1- I carry a brace of throwing knives. Lose one, hit him with a few others. Then I rely on more close- in weapons.
2- If I think the guy needs to have one of my knives in him, he is already armed with something worse than the knife. Ever try to spar with a knife against a baseball bat?
3- Practice more and read the internet less.
4- Use heavier knives and get better at them.
Throwing knives are very practical under the right conditions and in the hands of someone willing to put in the time. I prefer a pistol, but with my circumstances that is not an option in many cases where I am trying to keep a low profile.
P
phlux
Guest
I personally throw for several reasons. (not in any particular order)
1. Self awareness; throwing knives brings about an awareness of what every part of your body is doing - when you throw perfectly you can feel it.
2. Moving as a unit - when properly throwing, your body will move as a complete unit. If you are doing dynamic throwing (meaning throwing while walking, running or moving) you will see that your throw arm comes forward as you make your step - in unison
3. Posture. Keep your back straight. this helps in transitioning the power of the movement into the throwing of the knife.
4. Extention of focus. You know when people talk about making the such-and-such an extension of yourself? well its the same as with knife throwing - although the difference is that the extension of yourself now includes non-tangible space. This means that you have to feel that the knife is still an extension of you as it flies to its target - and you are not physically holding on to it.
In addition - you learn to extend your focus such that you "see through the tip of the blade" as you become more aware of energy/chi/whatever you feel like calling it - you will see that precise accuracy comes from being able to extend your vision through the knife to the target - but not just a certain area of the target - but a specific point.
5. Kamae - Want to practice moving from Kamae to Kamae? then throw knives - if your transitions are smooth and correct - your knife will throw properly - if not (like if you are moving with too much arm and not from the hip) you will know because you will have trouble throwing the knife - and it will also cause you to exert effort (like when normally throwing a baseball) and you will see that your movements are costing you energy - not saving you energy.
Knife throwing is a wonderful personal training tool - I recommend that anyone do it.
Its meditative.
1. Self awareness; throwing knives brings about an awareness of what every part of your body is doing - when you throw perfectly you can feel it.
2. Moving as a unit - when properly throwing, your body will move as a complete unit. If you are doing dynamic throwing (meaning throwing while walking, running or moving) you will see that your throw arm comes forward as you make your step - in unison
3. Posture. Keep your back straight. this helps in transitioning the power of the movement into the throwing of the knife.
4. Extention of focus. You know when people talk about making the such-and-such an extension of yourself? well its the same as with knife throwing - although the difference is that the extension of yourself now includes non-tangible space. This means that you have to feel that the knife is still an extension of you as it flies to its target - and you are not physically holding on to it.
In addition - you learn to extend your focus such that you "see through the tip of the blade" as you become more aware of energy/chi/whatever you feel like calling it - you will see that precise accuracy comes from being able to extend your vision through the knife to the target - but not just a certain area of the target - but a specific point.
5. Kamae - Want to practice moving from Kamae to Kamae? then throw knives - if your transitions are smooth and correct - your knife will throw properly - if not (like if you are moving with too much arm and not from the hip) you will know because you will have trouble throwing the knife - and it will also cause you to exert effort (like when normally throwing a baseball) and you will see that your movements are costing you energy - not saving you energy.
Knife throwing is a wonderful personal training tool - I recommend that anyone do it.
Its meditative.
Stan
Green Belt
Very good points. Throwing a knife means use of force has escalated to lethal. No question about it. I wouldn't give up my only weapon, but if I had multiple knives, I wouldn't worry so much about the bad guy using my badly thrown knifie against me. If he's unarmed, I shouldn't be throwing a knife to begin with. We're not ninja assassins, nor are we Bill the Butcher from Gangs of New York (my favorite knife throwing movie!)
