Kenpo Man

[Cthulhu]

You may be particularly interested in this, Gou...

In the latest issue of Black Belt magazine (November 2001...Dan Inosanto on the cover), on page 103, there is an advertisement for a training device called 'kenpo man'.

I have no idea of it's height, as there is nothing pictured next to it for size comparison, so I can only give a brief description.

Nearly all of this device is padded, with an internal metal tube skeleton. It has a central vertical post with a single 'arm' sticking out at a right angle about 1/3 of the length down from the top. At the bottom of the vertical post is a short perpendicular horizontal bar acting as hips, from which two 'legs' jut out to the ground from either end of the bar at 45-degree angles.

According to the ad, different sizes are available and the 'arm' swivels. It costs $438USD.

Their is a link to the creator's site at:

TAI Ken Po [sic]

It is a David German, a supposed 10th Dan in TAI ken po [sic]. Though this is the URL given in the Black Belt magazine ad, there is NO info on this training device anywhere on his site.

Cthulhu

 

[GouRonin]

I haven't got that issue yet. Although I will point out that Dan Inosanto ran one of Parker's schools for a while.

David German is a long time martial artist who from all accounts is very good. He delved off into a direction not taken by many in his training and thus formed his own art. From all the people I have spoken with he knows some kewl stuff. I have never seen him myself though.

After my Nyquill high I'll check this out. Thanx.

 

[Cthulhu]

Yeah, I know Inosanto used to teach for Parker. I just mentioned that he was on the cover to make the mag easier to find if you were to look for it.

It's interesting to hear that this German fella knows his stuff. I just happen to be suspicious of anybody calling themself a 10th dan without some backing to the rank. The person who immediately comes to mind is 'Hanshi' Steven Kaufman, the author of the abyssmal 'Martial Artist's Book of Five Rings' and 'Martial Artist's Art of War'.

He's a 10th dan in a style he created, which is convenient. He calls himself 'hanshi', which is ridiculous. 'Hanshi' is not a title awarded to oneself, it is an honorific awarded to one by others. It isn't a rank. People may refer to you as 'hanshi so-and-so', but you never say, "Hi, I'm hanshi butt-munch'.

Also, his school is supposedly the 'school of the snake', which he calls 'dojo no hebi' in Japanese. From this, you can tell how bad his translation of Musashi's 'Book of Five Rings' is, since 'dojo no hebi' means 'the snake of the school' or 'the school's snake'. The correct term, if it existed, would be 'hebi no dojo'.

I'm not dumping Mr. German with Kaufman's ilk, but just demonstrating why I was immediately suspicious of Mr. German due to his 10th dan ranking.

It's a pity Mr. German's site doesn't have any info on this 'kenpo man' training device. It'll be hard to sell with just that ad from Black Belt magazine.

Cthulhu

 

[GouRonin]

Is actually just as good if not better than most dummies for kenpo if you work it right.

 

[Cthulhu]

I think a mook jong would benefit any martial artist, provided they receive some preliminary training on how to use it correctly.

It's good to practice your techniques on a variety of training devices, just as it's good to practice with a variety of people.

Cthulhu

 

[Big Guy]

A bag does not take the place of a body

 

[Cthulhu]

This may be true, but how many of us have access to a body willing to be beat upon 24/7, hmmm?

It's common knowledge that actually sparring against a moving body is probably the best way to train in the martial arts. However, when one is not available, it is better to train with some sort of device (bag, makiwara, mook jong, etc) than not train at all.

I'm willing to bet that those of us who do use training equipment in addition to sparring find that their sparring is improved.

Cthulhu

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Hmm...maybe this isn't the time to mention the 100+ shots to the head with a shinai I took a while back? <G>

Seriously, I think using a variety of training aids helps in learning the "theoretical" or "form" but only when you work with a live partner do you learn to adapt to the unexpected...the wristlock reversed, the off center kick you 'walk into', etc.

Both help to balance out the martial artist.

my 2cents.

 

[Big Guy]

Sparring is a game of tag. It does not get you ready for the street. A bag does not act like a body so you are not able to do your techniques the right way. But for just a work out a bag is great

 

[Cthulhu]

The only thing that can truly get you 'ready for the street' is to go out on the street and pick fights with people. Like it's been said, the best way to learn how to punch is to punch. The best way to learn how to kick is to kick. The best way to learn how to fight is to fight.

However, it's a good way to get sued/arrested/injured/dead. That's why we spar. There are various degrees of sparring, from no contact point-sparring to full contact, NHB sparring. Depends on the school and practitioners. To call all sparring a 'game of tag' can be seen as a bit sophomoric.

However, everybody trains differently, according to their own goals, desires, physicality, etc.

Don't mean nothin', not a thing.

Cthulhu

 

[GouRonin]

A partner is always the best in my opinion but it's hard to find those who like to bang like you do or at the level you do. A bag is good for those idea. The dummy is even better as it responds quite well. Plus, you can't knock out it's teeth by accident.

Until my neighbour around the corner starts to volunteer to be my punching bag and fufill my dreams I'll have to make do.

 

[Big Guy]

Sparring is a game of tag and no one get hurt, Frighting on the street has no rules all you have to do is win or die, And if you train at KENPO a dummy does not move so you can not do your Techniques the right way but if you are in KENPO a dummy is OK for you do not understand the art of KENPO and the study of motion. But all that matters is that you train the best you can. For in time we all get what we put into it. So to all keep training.
Big Guy

 

[GouRonin]

I have to agree that part of Kenpo is understanding the reactions of your opponent. But I also knew that from boxing. Boxing is another art that requires a partner of sorts to train in.

Both arts can be trained with only one person but they work better with another person. In my case I only have a select few people to work with because I don't have a school. At least I have yet to find one that doesn't throw me out or bore me to tears.

You make a good point. Do the best you can with what you have. If all you have is a dummy, punch and kick that. If all you have is a bag, punch and kick the bag. If all you have is a telephone pole, then punch and kick that. Do what you can with what you have.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

With sparing, I think it depends on how you spar. Ive done both the "once you hit, back off" and the "free for all" style. Personally, I like free for all. I can't stand the "chest only" target zone one school I was at limited everyone to. Of course, when you go all out, both your and your partners control must be really good, else you pop joints n break things.

I've got a friend that every so often we'll just go at it. Only rule is that we both need to be able to function well afterwards. Its been good to work out some throws, locks etc, against someone who is really fighting the hold, where as in most training settings your partner goes with the flow (cuz it hurts if they dont).

And I for one, just do not like pain....it hurts me.

I do agree though, practice only takes you so far. To really get good, you need live action....something I try to avoid for now. That whole white-belt thing.

 

[GouRonin]

My friend always tells me that "pain is only weakness leaving the body."

I like the pain, it's a nice reminder that i must have screwed up somewhere.

...of course I don't mind returning the favour.

I saw the ad for the "Kenpo-Man"... I am not sure why it's the price it is. maybe it's a magic kenpo-man. I dunno. But for 400+ dollars US, I think I could build myself a better one.

Hopefully I'll get a chance to see this thing someday.

 

[Cthulhu]

Not having a person next to it for scale doesn't help things, either. It looks like anyone with limited knowledge of tools could make one out of PVC and some padding, doesn't it?

Looks a little interesting, just not $400+ interesting.

Cthulhu

 

[GouRonin]

I have no clue what it does. I have no idea about the size. it has a vague description. No website info to even help out. Someone isn't getting their ad's worth, that's for sure.

And the 400.00$+ price tag isn't helping any.

I just browsed through the whole mag and there are a TONNE of dummies etc in the thing that offer the same or specialized training.

This mag is sometimes one big ad.

 

[Big Guy]

We have them in the school and they are OK but Bob is much better

 

[GouRonin]

If memory serves me correctly you have those kewler ones. The IKCA ones with legs and all. I like those. They are about thehalf the price of this new "kenpo-man" and I am willing to bet about 3 times more effective.

Ahhh...I am so jealous of your school.

I have a "B.O.B." as well and i find he's great for all sorts of things but I wish he had arms..

 

[Cthulhu]

You need a partner for this:

Have a person stand behind BOB with escrima sticks or some sort of padded stick to simulate arms (holding them so that they protrude from under BOB's shoulders). You couldn't really have that person do strikes with these ersatz 'arms', but you could practice breaking through somebody's defenses a bit (pak sao, lop sao, jut sao maybe) or they could just provide a slightly more realistic obstacle to work around as you move in to kill BOB.

Just a thought. Haven't tried it. Some of us don't have our own BOB

Cthulhu