Milt G.
Purple Belt
Ask Jill.... :lol:
Now THAT is funny...
Thanks for the chuckle!
Milt G.
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Ask Jill.... :lol:
My FMA instructor and I attended a two day Kosho Ryu Kempo seminar with Hashi Juchnik. I see more adulation online of folks like Mr. Tatum and Mr. Gaje than I heard fromm Mr. Juchnik. He spoke favorably of his teaching much like many folks speak favorably of their own teachers.
This was one of a few seminars that I attended with my own instructor because I can't decode information from seminars well, and I wanted his help in breaking the material down for me.
The seminar proceeded with Mr. Juchnik demonstrating a technique, then havning us practice it. My instructor would watch me try what was being taught...such as pointing your shoulder in a direction where you were trying to leap..
He would then ask "Did it work? (Did I jump farther, as Mr. Juchnik said I would?)
When I said yes, he would then quiz me with "Do you know why it worked?" He would challenge me to figure out the mechanics. If I couldn't, he would then explain why. Mechanically, what was being taught appeared to be sound. One move was essentially a one-inch punch, another was was a set of moves that some FMAists practice as a rope form.
Mr. Juchnik has been a colorful figure in his own right, but at least in my interaction with him, I found him to be very helpful and respectful. I arrived at the seminar with an FMA shirt on from my old school but he regarded us with the same respect he gave to Sensei Bonk's students. We weren't the only FMAists there, either, but everyone in attendance was polite and respectful to one another. My instructor was there with me, but there were plenty of Kosho students willing to lend a hand if I got stuck.
After the seminar, I asked my instructor what he thought about Mr. Juchnik learning from Mitose in jail. (Some folks have said it would have been impossible for him to teach from prison). My instructor then recalled something that Mr. Juchnik said at the seminar, where a piece of paper was folded in half, and creased, and Mitose described how pressure on the paper would make it bend at the crease, in the direction of the crease. That lead to an application exploited how an elbow can, and will be bent on its hinge with the right application of pressure. My instructor finished by saying that was likely an example of how Mitose taught, when he could not physically demonstrate. Perhaps some folks will say that the story Mr. Juchnik said was a lie and just another Mitose fraud.
There were aspects to Kosho Ryu Kempo that I found difficult. The terminology at times was a bit flowery and difficult to follow. Sometimes Mr. Juchnik was difficult to follow. There was not as much time spent on combat applications as I personally would have liked...which left me wondering how I would use some of the material in a live situation. Perhaps some folks will say that is proof that the system is fradulent.
The seminar to me was very positive. I particularly enjoyed working out with Mr. Bonk and his students. I can't say that I walked away from the seminar with any kind of personal insult or disgust.
Don't you think that is a little strange since the Tracy's material has been filtered through at least two major pioneers (Chow, Parker) since the time when she trained? Was it the same "in spirit" or was it the same material, because certainly Short 1, Long 1, and the yellow belt curriculum could not be "exactly what Mitose had taught."
wow! CAROL!...YOU'VE OFFICALLY CROSSED THE LINE!Ask Jill.... :lol:
look at Mitose's book, the technies are all classic japanese karate stuff
no flow
nothing remotely kenpo like at all
Hmmm. I would be a little suspicious of that (what he said, not what you said). It sounds like that fellow was just trying to acknowledge that you were all part of the same family.
I was told by a student of Mitose's who was also a student of Chow, Brother Abe and Ralph Castro, that "You can't compare what Mitose was doing in the 40's with what is being taught now because it is like trying to compare a flint-lock rifle to a machine gun." Combine that with the "Kinny garden stuff" statement from Chow, and it sounds like they're saying the same basic thing.
Sijo Emperado also said that Mitose only tried to do the "One-punch kill" stuff ala old-school Karate etc. and that there was no flow or follow-through in the techniques. Apparently Mitose was pretty good at the one-punch part since he hit Emperado's metal car fender one time, and left a large fist-shaped dent in it. But I have not really heard anything that says what he did was similar to modern Kenpo.
Don't you think that is a little strange since the Tracy's material has been filtered through at least two major pioneers (Chow, Parker) since the time when she trained? Was it the same "in spirit" or was it the same material, because certainly Short 1, Long 1, and the yellow belt curriculum could not be "exactly what Mitose had taught."
Well, let's see: Chow, Parker, Emperado, (my other source who wishes to not be named in a public forum, and since he is a 9th degree in my system, and friend, I will honor that) and Doc, have all had first hand experience with Mitose's skill. They all came to roughly the same conclusion. If he was hiding his art, he hid it quite well I'd say.
My point in stating the opinons of those various people is that it is unlikely that they would all share the same need to bash Mitose when they don't seem to need to bash each other. I doubt that they would all come to the same conclusion unless it were true.
Actually I am pointing out something very similar. They all have fervent followers who claim to believe everything that they said. Legends are a slippery slope when discussing them publicly. It's often difficult to tell where the objective truth ends and the stories begin. It's one thing to believe the legends yourself and tell them to your students, but it is going to be very difficult to get the larger public to believe them in the face of better documented evidence to the contrary.
To me, there is little difference between the legends of Count Dante, Frank Dux and Mitose. On the factual side, we know that they were all practicing martial artists at some point. We have those that saw them demonstrate their prowess and we find that what people saw was very normal and human. Then we have the legends. The things that no one really saw, but rather heard tell of from others. In these legends, these people were nearly superhuman in their abilities and knowledge. They passed down hidden secrets, and fought secret Tong death matches etc. It is in the area of these legends that their followers (I don't say students, but followers) get the most fervent about when it comes to defending them. It takes on a cult-like character and the true accomplishments of the person get lost in the mix. It is the defense of these legends, that cause others to dismiss these people entirely. Too bad really.
I have read in several places that Emperado stated that Mitose was a "Master Level Instructor." Chow's opinions of everyone seem, to me, more about Chow being top-dog than anything else. But he only had one teacher, and that was Mitose. Thomas Young stayed with Mitose's teachings and was writing very positively about him up until his death. Okazaki thought highly of him, as did Kufferath. As a matter of fact, all of the people that I have personally met that knew Mitose, spoke very highly of his skill.
Don't know much about Parker's experiences with him, nor Doc's. But I have read the court transcripts and think that by the early 70's, Mitose was loony.
I imagine the jury will never be in. Bottom line is that kenpo is awesome, and what we have funneled through Mitose.
Kindly point me to where Chow, Parker, Emperado, and Doc, all bashed each other. We have one dubious "interview" with Chow where he spposedly says something negative about Parker. Chow never ran down Emperado at all. Emperado gave Parker an 8th degree and said he did great things for Kenpo. Parker never ran down Chow's or Emperado's abilities that I ever heard of. And Those guys never trashed Doc either that I know of. If he ever said anything negative about them, then I've never read it either.Except that they all did bash each other at one point or another.
I don't know of any stories like that about Mitose. Well, there is the orange thing, but that was told to me by someone who witnessed it first hand.
actually, there is plenty of trash talking in Kenpo history.
mind you, it pretty much all comes from someone named tracy, and is about everyone NOT named tracy.......
The self defense techniques and the training were the same. We, as a general rule, do not practice kata in class, so I doubt that during her time with us, she saw much of Short 1 and Long 1. But, very often, during technique practice, she would observe something, and step in and offer a lesson from her time with Mitose, that for many of us, would open up a new aspect of the technique. Sometimes, we already knew it. But she knew and recognized the kenpo that we were practicing.
actually, there is plenty of trash talking in Kenpo history.
mind you, it pretty much all comes from someone named tracy, and is about everyone NOT named tracy.......
oh no, you are right, the Tracy's gain NOTHING by bad mouthing Parker