kenpo blocking and phases

[brianhunter]

Originally posted by Sigung86



Too Right Dennis,

A number of years ago I put together a "basic" self defense course for jailers/warders at one of our state prisons. Went and demonstrated, gave them the outline, course syllabus, etc. It was rejected as being "politically incorrect".

Which kind of makes me wonder why Robbo thought I was being sarcastic about the "Gun thing"! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Dan

Sir,
I would love to see it! If you have it on a format you could email it or something. I think being politically correct is what has sold our country out time and time again in the recent years (Its getting bad when alot of us gen x guys think that way!) off subject...stay on target... stay on target......I would love to see what you had put together Mr Farmer

 

[brianhunter]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7

Im at a loss!

Well you'd like to think America had its "wake up" call last year. Law Enforcement kicked into high gear and stopped ALOT of further things from happening all of us worked overtime and gave 110 percent...whether it was an 82 year old lady worried about her letter or a suspicious person hanging around a water plant American checked it out and did good, it seemed to last about 6 months untill the media ran out of al quida and terrorist stories then back to beating up America and its protectors in the media.
:soapbox:
Ill shut up now sorry got too off topic there

 

[Sigung86]

Actually Brian, you are nowhere near off subject. These types of subjects ought to be near and dear to the heart of every student of Kenpo.

You have to stand for something or you'll fall for just about anything. (Old tired, overused, but still true)...

Dan

 

[Robbo]

Which kind of makes me wonder why Robbo thought I was being sarcastic about the "Gun thing"!

I was just frustrated that the original poster asked some very valid questions and all he got for a reply was, get a gun if you're not prepared to study for a long, long time.

I just decided to answer his questions because nobody else in the thread seemed inclined to.

Thanks,
Rob

 

[Sigung86]

It's OK Robbo! Everyone has an opinion and you are certainly entitled to express yours. I think, and we were apparently wrong, that a lot of people saw his post as one of those slam dunkers. I also apologize.

Dan

ps: I wasn't kidding just a whole bunch. The older I get the more inclined I am to carry!

 

[WilliamTLear]

It is my expereince that when properly instructed & trained, a student comes away from his very first lesson with something of value added to his arsenal of self-defense tools. In which case, I can say yes, Kenpo is a system that you can pick up some useful self-defense material quickly. The refinement is what takes a long time.

I have been in MANY, very real, do or die altercations... and most of them happened when I was an Orange Belt - Blue Belt. Did I do perfect Kenpo when defending myself...? Probably not, but Kenpo (perfect or not) SAVED MY ***!!!

Pick up what you can, short term... that's alright...
Just remember that through refinement, you are always learning... and that is where I apply this saying...

Fast to learn, fast to forget... Slow to learn, slow to forget.

Learn as much as you can at your own pace, but refine your art over a long period of time and you will definately reap the benefits of doing so.

I hope this helps,
Billy Lear

P.S. Pace yourself, and know your limitations. You want to retain information after you learn it.

 

[cfr]

If I may interject here, again Im just trying to figure out if Kenpo is for me or not. Lets face it, not everyone is going to agree with the die hard Kenpo fans. I have also asked some Muay Thai questions in other post sections. According to them, MT is the only way to go. Everything else is useless. (except maybe some BJJ for ground) I really dont see myself in that light. What both of those styles claim is that they are learned quickly. Im aware of all the countless scenarios outside of an NHB competition that these two styles would not be adequate for, but quickly learned is attractive to me. Just for the record, I have every intention of being in some style or another for a very long time. I love training and am highly annoyed that I cant do it right now do to my foot. I am not happy that Ive already been in 3 styles and am trying to avoid any more switches. But, if Kenpo isnt for me, I would rather figure that out sooner than later.

 

[Sigung86]

cfr,

Straight up word Bro! You can talk to everyone and get all the differing opinions and wisdom in the world, but if you don't get in the water, you'll never learn how to swim.

Dan

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by cfr
I am not happy that I've already been in 3 styles and am trying to avoid any more switches.

the proper instructor in Kenpo you will not be disappointed. MT and many others can be great however, many do not have the material and longevity that American Kenpo does in the long run.

:asian:

 

[WilliamTLear]

Originally posted by cfr

If I may interject here, again Im just trying to figure out if Kenpo is for me or not. Lets face it, not everyone is going to agree with the die hard Kenpo fans. I have also asked some Muay Thai questions in other post sections. According to them, MT is the only way to go. Everything else is useless. (except maybe some BJJ for ground) I really dont see myself in that light. What both of those styles claim is that they are learned quickly. Im aware of all the countless scenarios outside of an NHB competition that these two styles would not be adequate for, but quickly learned is attractive to me. Just for the record, I have every intention of being in some style or another for a very long time. I love training and am highly annoyed that I cant do it right now do to my foot. I am not happy that Ive already been in 3 styles and am trying to avoid any more switches. But, if Kenpo isnt for me, I would rather figure that out sooner than later.

What do you want to hear? I posted an answer to your question, and you're interjecting? Didn't you say that you want to learn a system that you can pick-up fast, but that you have every intention of sticking with it for a very long time? Didn't I say that Kenpo is easy to learn (and effective), but that there is always something to refine (possibly, for many years to come)?

Granted, I don't know you... and I don't have a firm grasp of how well you retain information, but if your analysis of my post is any indication as to how dedicated you are to LEARNING anything... Then go do Tae Bo, or better yet... BUY A GUN like Robertson said. :shrug:

 

[Doc]

I can solve this real easy. Get off your butt and go visit some schools. We don't have the answers you want.

 

[brianhunter]

Originally posted by Doc

I can solve this real easy. Get off your butt and go visit some schools. We don't have the answers you want.

To be honest I think CFR does this every thread he starts (go back and look)..it goes in stages...he give his training speal, what hes NOT wanting to do, why you should convince him or answer him about it, then complains because nobody gave the answer he wants. When in fact if you go back and look several very experienced people have addressed the issue in depth. Makes me wonder if he is in fact wanting to be a kenpoist or if his intent is to cause strife.

 

[cfr]

Originally posted by WilliamTLear



What do you want to hear? I posted an answer to your question, and you're interjecting? Didn't you say that you want to learn a system that you can pick-up fast, but that you have every intention of sticking with it for a very long time? Didn't I say that Kenpo is easy to learn (and effective), but that there is always something to refine (possibly, for many years to come)?

Granted, I don't know you... and I don't have a firm grasp of how well you retain information, but if your analysis of my post is any indication as to how dedicated you are to LEARNING anything... Then go do Tae Bo, or better yet... BUY A GUN like Robertson said. :shrug:

Did I say your answer wasnt what I wanted to hear? That might be what you read, but thats not what I wrote. What I attempted to do with my totally out of line interjection was to clarify why I am wondering what Im wondering. Everyone seems to think that I want a "quick fix" and I was attempting to (purely for lack of better words) compare to another style that its practitioners boast how quickly is learned. I did read what you said. It was helpful. I did reatin it. I just thought an idea of the angle I was looking at it from may be helpful. In the future, I will make it part of my original post and not dare interject.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by brianhunter




To be honest I think CFR does this every thread he starts (go back and look)..it goes in stages...he give his training speal, what hes NOT wanting to do, why you should convince him or answer him about it, then complains because nobody gave the answer he wants. When in fact if you go back and look several very experienced people have addressed the issue in depth. Makes me wonder if he is in fact wanting to be a kenpoist or if his intent is to cause strife.

My speal and what I am not wanting to do are exactly that. I am not wanting to appear to have all the answers based on my VERY small amount of experience. I am not wanting to offend anyone based on questioning their style and beliefs. I really dont see where anyone got my complaininig about getting the right answers from as indicated in my reply to WilliamTLear. You are absolutely correct, Im not sure I want to be a Kenpoist. I dont think you are on to anything new with this one. I thought I had made that very clear in my post. Im trying to figure out if Kenpo is for me or not. Again, Im pretty sure I made this clear. But to cause strife? Come on? My life is really good and full and Ive got better stuff to do than try to figure out how to push the buttons of Kenpoists.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Both of your insults remind me of a few threads Ive read in an Muay Thai forum. He retaliated and it went on for months. However, I believe that sometimes the best way to end conflict is not to retaliate to it, but to end it. So, my most humble apologies if I have offended you or your style. I never intended to do that or to just get a rise out of you. I have stated my goal several times in an attempt to avoid this. I am sorry if I have indicated in any way that my intentions were for bad motives. Have a great Sunday.

 

[jeffkyle]

Originally posted by cfr




My speal and what I am not wanting to do are exactly that. I am not wanting to appear to have all the answers based on my VERY small amount of experience. I am not wanting to offend anyone based on questioning their style and beliefs. I really dont see where anyone got my complaininig about getting the right answers from as indicated in my reply to WilliamTLear. You are absolutely correct, Im not sure I want to be a Kenpoist. I dont think you are on to anything new with this one. I thought I had made that very clear in my post. Im trying to figure out if Kenpo is for me or not. Again, Im pretty sure I made this clear. But to cause strife? Come on? My life is really good and full and Ive got better stuff to do than try to figure out how to push the buttons of Kenpoists.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Both of your insults remind me of a few threads Ive read in an Muay Thai forum. He retaliated and it went on for months. However, I believe that sometimes the best way to end conflict is not to retaliate to it, but to end it. So, my most humble apologies if I have offended you or your style. I never intended to do that or to just get a rise out of you. I have stated my goal several times in an attempt to avoid this. I am sorry if I have indicated in any way that my intentions were for bad motives. Have a great Sunday.

It doesn't look to me like Brian was stating that he was offended, he just merely stated how each thread ends up turning out. All of these guys try to answer the questions based on their knowledge and experience, but it never seems good enough. Maybe you do need to say exactly what you are thinking up front so that they can approach the subject better.

 

[jeffkyle]

Originally posted by Sigung86

Actually Brian, you are nowhere near off subject. These types of subjects ought to be near and dear to the heart of every student of Kenpo.

You have to stand for something or you'll fall for just about anything. (Old tired, overused, but still true)...

Dan

I know that song...LOL.

 

[fanged_seamus]

Hey CFR,

Just a couple of thoughts to add to this mess of a thread...hope you don't mind.

ON BLOCKING:

Yes, many of the blocks are "traditional" blocks and rarely used in UFC tournaments. However, these blocks are not the sole defenses in kenpo. Parries seem much more common, as are slipping punches, evading, etc. In sparring (the few times I've done it), traditional inward and outward blocks are absent. Parries and evasion definitely seem to be preferred. These defense techniques are learned later, as it takes more skill to successfully execute a parry or evade a punch.

That said, sparring is NOT the same thing as self-defense. Sparring is a rule-heavy version of tag. To paraphrase the author Neal Stephenson, "[It] is an attempt to take a violent, chaotic confrontation and make it into a cute game." Don't ever confuse the two.



ON SELF-DEFENSE:

I say this constantly on these threads -- 90% of self-defense is the awareness and foresight not to get yourself into trouble. You need to avoid dangerous situations, talk your way out of problems, and learn to diffuse tense situations. If you really want to learn self-defense, whatever system you study should spend time on these subjects. If they are not discussing these subjects, they are NOT doing you the service of improving you ability to defend yourself. They are simply a glorified gym class.

For times when a confrontation is inevitable, that's when the training comes in. And there, the only thing you can do is find the right system for you. I chose kenpo because I learned some very practical and strong methods to physically defend myself quickly. The philosophy is what I was looking for. My instructors stress the idea of walking away over fighting. Kenpo is for me, it turns out.

Kenpo has some holes in it, but so do Muay Thai and BJJ. In fact, EVERY art and system has its strong points and weak points. Anyone who says otherwise is lying. Don't kid yourself that just because a system is agressive or popular it is the best for self-defense -- and NEVER believe someone who tells you there art's primary purpose is self-defense -- every martial arts instructor will say that, even the ones whose primary goal is teaching kids to win sport-fighting tournaments. Unless the system spends significant time covering the verbal, mental, and environmental aspects of self-defense, it is not doing you justice.

I think that you should sit down and figure out what self-defense REALLY means to you (even if it is as basic as learning to punch and kick hard, learning to wrestle, or learning how to quickly run away). Once you know what self-defense means to you, then go looking for your system. Otherwise you're just spinning your wheels (as some of these threads show)....

Hope this helps!

Tad Finnegan

 

[satans.barber]

Originally posted by fanged_seamus

In sparring (the few times I've done it), traditional inward and outward blocks are absent. Parries and evasion definitely seem to be preferred. These defense techniques are learned later, as it takes more skill to successfully execute a parry or evade a punch.

Depends on the kind of sparring for me...

If it's light sparring, I would tend to use parries more, but sometimes you get the odd idiot who decides it'd be fun to take your head off (usually lower belts who think that they can try to beat on the higher belts a bit more, regardless of whether or not they've got 5" and 2 stones on you...!), and a few heavy inwards blocks to the forearms can make them think twice. Parries are faster, but they lack the sting that can be needed in these situations!

Also, don't underestimate the effectiveness of the kung fu style 'waiter's block' (palm up, blocking with the back of the wrist), this is very easily turned into a grab, or you can just use it to throw their arm down towards their leg and then shuffle in with a jab maybe (you can pin the arm with you other hand if you're feeling a bit wing chun). Doesn't work as well if people have very fast hands though, it really is a sparring thing rather than a street thing, as Tad said a division has to be drawn!

Personally though, I don't think there's anything wrong with a bit of sparring that's not akin to street brawling, after all, it's better exercise, more fun, less dangerous and you often learn more. As long as we practice for the street in tandem (some arts only seem to spar...) then there's no harm in it

Ian.

 

[Doc]

Originally posted by fanged_seamus

Hey CFR,

Just a couple of thoughts to add to this mess of a thread...hope you don't mind.

ON BLOCKING:

Yes, many of the blocks are "traditional" blocks and rarely used in UFC tournaments. However, these blocks are not the sole defenses in kenpo. Parries seem much more common, as are slipping punches, evading, etc. In sparring (the few times I've done it), traditional inward and outward blocks are absent. Parries and evasion definitely seem to be preferred. These defense techniques are learned later, as it takes more skill to successfully execute a parry or evade a punch.

That said, sparring is NOT the same thing as self-defense. Sparring is a rule-heavy version of tag. To paraphrase the author Neal Stephenson, "[It] is an attempt to take a violent, chaotic confrontation and make it into a cute game." Don't ever confuse the two.



ON SELF-DEFENSE:

I say this constantly on these threads -- 90% of self-defense is the awareness and foresight not to get yourself into trouble. You need to avoid dangerous situations, talk your way out of problems, and learn to diffuse tense situations. If you really want to learn self-defense, whatever system you study should spend time on these subjects. If they are not discussing these subjects, they are NOT doing you the service of improving you ability to defend yourself. They are simply a glorified gym class.

For times when a confrontation is inevitable, that's when the training comes in. And there, the only thing you can do is find the right system for you. I chose kenpo because I learned some very practical and strong methods to physically defend myself quickly. The philosophy is what I was looking for. My instructors stress the idea of walking away over fighting. Kenpo is for me, it turns out.

Kenpo has some holes in it, but so do Muay Thai and BJJ. In fact, EVERY art and system has its strong points and weak points. Anyone who says otherwise is lying. Don't kid yourself that just because a system is agressive or popular it is the best for self-defense -- and NEVER believe someone who tells you there art's primary purpose is self-defense -- every martial arts instructor will say that, even the ones whose primary goal is teaching kids to win sport-fighting tournaments. Unless the system spends significant time covering the verbal, mental, and environmental aspects of self-defense, it is not doing you justice.

I think that you should sit down and figure out what self-defense REALLY means to you (even if it is as basic as learning to punch and kick hard, learning to wrestle, or learning how to quickly run away). Once you know what self-defense means to you, then go looking for your system. Otherwise you're just spinning your wheels (as some of these threads show)....

Hope this helps!

Tad Finnegan

Mr. Finnegan,

I applaud your wisdom, but even more so, your patience.

 

[rmcrobertson]

Um...ah..two things.

First off, I'm sorry if I was rude. I really am. But I have to say that I also really believe that what you're asking for is impossible: there is no short cut to a martial art, no maatter what it is, and anybody who says that there is...well.
I stand by my earlier posts with regard to the reason: when you train, the techniques are only a means to an end, and that end is necessarily a long time coming.

Second off, there is no way to know for sure, at the outset, that an art--any art--is for you. I hate to put it quite this way, but you have to take some things on faith for a while. Unfortunately, this always means a leap in the dark, and there are lots of folks out there who are ready, willing and able to take advantage of your trust. It's all very well to think that you'll just figure matters out intellectually and make a fully-reasoned decision--but nope, no way. Among other things, anyplace you train that's any good will demand a lot out of you physsically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually even--and there is a part of you, as there is a part of me, that doesn't want to get better. One of its ruses, its defense mechanisms, its way of maintaining what Freud called, "the compulsion to repeat," is to insinuate that this here art just ain't practical and quick enough.

I agree with others. Find a good teacher. Take the chance. Hope for the best. And, sweat your socks off.

Thanks.

 

[Doc]

Originally posted by rmcrobertson

Um...ah..two things.

First off, I'm sorry if I was rude. I really am. But I have to say that I also really believe that what you're asking for is impossible: there is no short cut to a martial art, no maatter what it is, and anybody who says that there is...well.
I stand by my earlier posts with regard to the reason: when you train, the techniques are only a means to an end, and that end is necessarily a long time coming.

Second off, there is no way to know for sure, at the outset, that an art--any art--is for you. I hate to put it quite this way, but you have to take some things on faith for a while. Unfortunately, this always means a leap in the dark, and there are lots of folks out there who are ready, willing and able to take advantage of your trust. It's all very well to think that you'll just figure matters out intellectually and make a fully-reasoned decision--but nope, no way. Among other things, anyplace you train that's any good will demand a lot out of you physsically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually even--and there is a part of you, as there is a part of me, that doesn't want to get better. One of its ruses, its defense mechanisms, its way of maintaining what Freud called, "the compulsion to repeat," is to insinuate that this here art just ain't practical and quick enough.

I agree with others. Find a good teacher. Take the chance. Hope for the best. And, sweat your socks off.

Thanks.

Clearly you have a level of patience as well. Ed parker used to call people of this type "Lookie Loos." They have a thousand questions, and for every answer you give him he has a "but," another question, and an uneducated opinion. Ed Parker said the best way to deal with a Lookey Loo is to make him pay for the priveledge.