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OP
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The ancient fighting methods of the Shaolin monks are all but lost. Wing chun existed, but most of the styles were gone as they weren't written down at all and there was nobody to pass them. People claiming to be Shaolin monsters are nothing more than people with shaved heads performing acrobatics, nothing more, they're not even real monks as I saw them eating meat.
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Skarbromantis
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And you got that info from where?
So do you think that charging student's money for Kung Fu and Teaching Them Kenpo/Kempo/Karate is ok?
Skard1
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When did I say that? I agreed with you and I saidthat there is no such thing as Shaolin monk masters anymore and that a lot of the arts were lost because they weren't written down.
Yeah, I see that you were agreeing with him, I think he just read it wrong.
However, I would be interested in knowing where you got the information about there being no shaolin monk masters anymore, cause there are still shaolin temples correct ?
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KennethKu
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We still have the Sphinx and the pyramids, but where is the Pharaoh? 
The Temple today is a tourist attraction. The MA's version of Graceland, so to speak. (But there is no Elvis lol)
One has to be extremely cautious when one hears claim of lineage that is impossible to verify independently.
The Temple today is a tourist attraction. The MA's version of Graceland, so to speak. (But there is no Elvis lol)
One has to be extremely cautious when one hears claim of lineage that is impossible to verify independently.
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theneuhauser
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i recently read that wudang is rebuilding their taoist population and are trying to reestablish their traditions in nei ja.
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MartialArtist
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Shaolin monks revived? Yes, in a way. The monks after the Manchu invasions were pretty muched wiped out. The monks today are trying to revive their traditions but most of their fighting techniques were gone. Their philosophies however, did survive in a way and a lot of their rituals dealing with them. The temples nowadays are more of a tourist attraction now.
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GouRonin
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Man I hope he wasn't refering to the Long Beach Internationals that Ed Parker ran when he says, "I owned the world's largest tournament in Long Beach. I was the owner of it." The really funny part is this,
Q Did you and Ms. Hilbig travel to Los Angeles to study under Ed Parker?
A No.
Q Did you ever study with Mr. Parker or train with him?
A Mr. Parker was an associate of mine, and for some time we were partners in the Long Beach International Tournament. I didn't have to study under Parker. Mr. Parker awarded me an Eighth Degree Black Belt at the time as a courtesy simply due to the fact that I lectured in all of his classes for quite some time, and when I visited there I think sometimes three or four days in a row with about two or three hundred students there.
Q When was that that Mr. Ed Park awarded you an Eighth Degree Black Belt?
A That was mainly in the end. I think '71.
Q Did you and Ms. Hilbig travel to Los Angeles to study under Ed Parker?
A No.
Q Did you ever study with Mr. Parker or train with him?
A Mr. Parker was an associate of mine, and for some time we were partners in the Long Beach International Tournament. I didn't have to study under Parker. Mr. Parker awarded me an Eighth Degree Black Belt at the time as a courtesy simply due to the fact that I lectured in all of his classes for quite some time, and when I visited there I think sometimes three or four days in a row with about two or three hundred students there.
Q When was that that Mr. Ed Park awarded you an Eighth Degree Black Belt?
A That was mainly in the end. I think '71.
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Skarbromantis
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Sorry, I did read it wrong, my bad.
Skard1
Skard1
Is this so? Did Mr. Parker award people honorary 8th degree black belts?
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GouRonin
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Perhaps this is a mystery best left to be asked in the Kenpo section da??
Originally posted by KennethKu
We still have the Sphinx and the pyramids, but where is the Pharaoh?
The Temple today is a tourist attraction. The MA's version of Graceland, so to speak. (But there is no Elvis lol)
One has to be extremely cautious when one hears claim of lineage that is impossible to verify independently.
Yes, but there was only one pharoah at a time, and some cultures have traced back to their ancestors as to whom was a pharoah. I read an article on it in National Geographic in the Dentist office! ouch!!
Also, the sphinx and pyramids did not house the pharoah. Just because the temple was destroyed doesn't change what was taught there does it? The monks handed down there training, philosophies, religion, everything, does it make it different that their temple was destoyed? Would it cahnge your art, if your school was destoyed by a fire or something ? I don't mean to sound disrespectful, I'm just trying to cover every angle.
7sm
OP
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Arts like wing chun survived because it was able to be handed down. And now, it is also written. The other styles were not written down for security purposes (no joke) and they weren't really able to pass down their arts because they were destroyed. Most of the "Shaolin monks" you see now are just "fake" techniques that were learned by people who just watched and/or are just new upstarts. Even Northern and Southern Shaolin stylists know that the art practiced by the monks and nuns (yes, there were nuns in the temple like Ng Mui) is not like their art today. Unfortunately, most of their training methods are now just legend.
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theneuhauser
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what about systems that devloped in shaolin and travelled outside the temple?
I totaly agree that the arts we are practicing are different from what was practiced when they were created, but I don't understand how writting them down would have saved them more than handing down by instruction. The monks and nuns teach their students and so forth. Aside from possible "watering down" of techniques and maybe weaker training, what woudl have been changed so dramatically?
Thats a good question, Praying Mantis for an example is one.
7sm
Thats a good question, Praying Mantis for an example is one.
7sm
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theneuhauser
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because of the nature of scripture it is really difficult to actually document a martial art anyway. words and drawings generally create one of two results; step by step instructions for forms and applications(just like dance step instr.) and obscure philosophy such as what is found in the classics of taiji quan. each has merit, obviously neither is perfect, and somewhere along the line most scripture dissappears. as do we all....
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Yes, there are a few that did survive. Each has their own history behind it.
The history behind wing chun I know the most about. During a Manchurian invasion, pretty much everyone was killed except for Ng Mui, an elder nun who escaped and taught wing chun and so forth and this is documented and became known to the outside world due to Yip Man.
The styles and the knowledge died with the monks. If you study some Far Eastern history, you'll be surprised just as how much knowledge was lost in the Shaolin arts.
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theneuhauser
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so you dont believe the story that ng mui devised a simple combat system for a lady named wing chun or something close to that?
It depends on who's history book you are reading. I don't doubt that ALOT of knowledge and even probably some full systems were lost, but how can we say in history that knowledge was lost. Who knows what knowledge was lost, and how it was lost ?
