Kara-Ho Kenpo?

[Grasshoppah]

Why worry about kata forms being copied, when no one can see what's happening internally. Kata is external what matters is how you move it internally.

 

[kidkarate]

I trained with Sensei Thompson who is a san-dan and I think you all misunderstood me. The federal protected names such as Kara-Ho are and is copyrighted, not the system. So are the names that are used for forms and such and if you don't believe me try calling the federal government. And for your information you can register a system under a person's name, and if you have a special technique that you created, yes, you can even register that. If this is not the case then I am going to the wrong law school that is providing me with wrong information. By the way what is your name, whoever claims to have been a green belt under Kuoha in the earlier years as he had very little that reached that level and prior to Professor Chow's death, you could count them on one hand and everyone in the system knew who they were.

 

[kidkarate]

Thank you Mr. Bishop for clarifying these things to people that really don't know what they are talking about. I wrote an e-mail message to Grandmaster Kuoha and asked him if he knew you and he had so many great things to say about you, even to the effect of your break-up with your former instructor prior to training in Kajukenbo. He told me that your search for knowledge is what consumed the break-up but your former instructor did not accept that, and he said one must do things that might hurt another, but that you search for knowledge for yourself and not for others. He said that you and he had numerous conversation before and that you are a person of high value and am always searching for the truth. He relayed to me that you were like a dying breed of martial artists. You remibded him of John Soet, the editor of the onetime magqazine, "Inside Karate" who always looked for the truth and would go to the ends of the earth to find it, and didn't care who it hurt. I commend you for your hard work.

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by kidkarate
I trained with Sensei Thompson who is a san-dan and I think you all misunderstood me.

You wrote:

Regarding learning the forms of Kara-Ho and it's names, those are all federally protected titles and forms unless it has been changed at least 60%.

It seemed like you were saying both the names (titles) and the forms were copyrighted. What was the 60% referring to--the number of letters in the name?

If this is not the case then I am going to the wrong law school that is providing me with wrong information.

I'm guessing this is so. Your profile says you're an attorney. The overwhelming majority of attorneys are already law school graduates. In a few states--perhaps only NH--you can still become a member of the bar by apprenticing, in theory, though it's very hard to do. Unless you apprenticed like Abraham Lincoln, it's unclear to me why you'd be going to law school if you're an attorney by occupation already.

I don't think you're playing straight with us.

 

[kidkarate]

Read my letter again, I said that the law school I am going to would be teaching me incorrectly about these things referring to you that I am in law school, which in most people's opinion, is not yet an attorney, but studying to be one, if in fact after I graduate I can pass the bar. Any other questions?

 

[Michael Billings]

kidkarate, I do not believe that the content of a form can be "copywrite protected", as it is not necessarily "written, which is what copywrite law applies to. So that is good information. But in no case can a "System" be protected, the names of the techniques could be protected, or the name of the system could be copywritten, but not the actual techniques or forms.

Devices can be patented, but I cannot imagine a "behavior" or any pattern of motion or response, whether dance, martial arts forms, or how you mow your yard, being protected in such a way that is legally binding or valid. Can you imagine "copywriting" a ballet, not the music, which can be, but the dance itself? Hmmmm...?

On kidkarate's profile:

no martial arts

So how do you know what a Kata or Form is? Disingenuous or Deceitful? I think I need more to go on before I jump to any conclusions. Honesty and integrity are recognized and rewarded by this group. I saw you said you trained with Sensei Thompson who is a san-dan, but that contradicts your profile. More info please.

Thanks,
-Michael

(edited for accuracy)

 

[kidkarate]

In my profile it has me as being an attorney but that is because I hope to be there by next year and I am already working as one helping the district attorney file and represent cases in court. I already have a firm wanting me to work for them when I am done. I think that is where you misunderstood me as in my response I did say that I was still attending law school.

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by kidkarate
Read my letter again, I said that the law school I am going to would be teaching me incorrectly about these things referring to you that I am in law school, which in most people's opinion, is not yet an attorney

In most people's opinion, perhaps, but not yours. Your profile lists your occupation as attorney (see near the bottom). Not Law Student, but attorney. (It also says you don't study the martial arts, if I read it correctly.)

I don't think you're playing straight with us.

 

[kidkarate]

It's none of anyone's business if I do have or how long I have been in martial arts. It's just great to see how people can twists and make up their own solutions to whom and how this system came about or who the head of this system is and is it the real system of this person, and so forth and the thing about all this is many of you don't really know what you are talking about. Okay I have only been in the arts a short time, but the one thing that has been drummed into me is to have respect. All of you speak like you know Grandmaster Kuoha and Professor Chow, but very few of you really know both men. Have any of you ever seen the certificate signed and notarized by Professor Chow to Kuoha or the declaration from his wife to him, or better yet have any of you ever heard the tapes that Kuoha has with Professor Chow on it. If you have heard it like I did, you would truly understand where and why the Kara-Ho Kempo Karate System was given to Grandmaster Kuoha. Because he was the only one that cared and took financially cared for Professor Chow and his wife. Ane even after his death Kuoha continued to pay a % of Patsy Chow's care in a home (Dr. Perry atested to that). Not even his students that were back home did that for him and none of them went to see or visit Patsy Chow when she was in the home. Kuoha continued doing that and also had his sister visit her every week on his behalf and she would take Patsy to the gravesite and then to the store to buy her things while Kuoha provided the funds. And Steven Chow, never received a black belt from Professor Chow but was a black belt in a Japanese System and he and Kuoha had a falling out because after the death of Professor, he asked Kuoha to promote him to 9th dan and Kuoha couldn't do that even if he knew that Steven was an asset to him because on that day he saw Patsy Chow with cuts and bruises to her face and she told him that Steven had beat her the night before and took all her money, which was a common practice for him, so at least Kuoha had some insight to make sure that students would have to follow someone with intergrity and standards. And the last word from Dr. Perry was that he saw Steven, a drug addict and homeless a few weeks ago. He told me that Kuoha at one time brought him to California for a whole summer to try to clean him up because of his love for Professor Chow. And I learned this also, like Mr. Bishop, by investigating and talking to people that knew, like Dr. Perry of Hawaii. In fact before joining Kara-Ho, I had my uncle, who lives in Hawaii and knows Master Charles Kuuheana do allot of investigating before I would join the system, and believe me after I found out what it was all about, I jumped on that train. Sorry I rattled on, but with what I went through, it upsets me when people say things that are not true to any extent. Do you think all those magazines write about people without any investigation?

 

[kidkarate]

no martial arts

I was told once by a very wise man who told me that I didn't know anything until I had been doing it for 10 years and he meant it with respect and in every sense of the meaning so when I say "no martial arts," it means that I have only an ounce of training as compared to this saying that I should be in it for at least 10 years before I know anything. Any disareement? I think in anything that one does, to be good at it, one must be doing it for quite some time. This is said by one of my law professors.

 

[Kempo Guy]

kidkarate,

By the way what is your name, whoever claims to have been a green belt under Kuoha in the earlier years as he had very little that reached that level and prior to Professor Chow's death, you could count them on one hand and everyone in the system knew who they were.

Are you referring to me? It sounds as if you are doubting me?
In any event, I have no interest in revealing my name on a public forum such as this. In the past I used my real name and started receiving phone calls and threatening emails by various individuals due to my teacher's (and my own) research and views.

BTW, I wouldn't call the early 90's the early years of Kara Ho. Not to mention the fact that I didn't achieve all that high of rank within this system... so I don't think who I am is of much consequence.

it upsets me when people say things that are not true to any extent. Do you think all those magazines write about people without any investigation?

Yes, I do think many write things in these magazines without much investigation... The information is not hard to get.

As for the information you have posted over the last day all I can say is that there is more to the story than what has been told (there's always several sides to a story). There are many people out there who are far more senior than I who would be more than happy to "talk story" with you. All you have to do is get in touch with them in Hawaii and on the mainland. If you have an uncle who knows Charles Kuuheana I'd suggest you speak to him directly (when I spoke to him he had some interesting things to say)...

FWIW, I am no longer involved with Kempo Karate and have no interest in its politics nor am I interested in getting involved in them. Kempo has brought me many good friends and I read these forums out of personal interest and nostalgia. I share some of my experiences when I feel it's prudent or if someone asks.

KG

 

[Pacificshore]

Very interesting discussions. But not every system is for everybody, and as far as "truth" goes, it's what you all want to believe. It's all about your research and conclusions. In terms of Kara-Ho and if whether or not it's Professor Chow's art, then like Mr.Bishop has stated, it more than likely is, just as much as Chun's and Castro's are.

Now, Kara-Ho like any other Kempo/Kenpo system has developed over time. I'm sure all insturctors of any system puts in their own flair on things as they learn and teach. Perhaps not at the basic levels, but at the more advance levels.

If Prof. Chow taught just one kata, and took out self defense applications from it, then he just further developed his system. If in this one kata, only a set number of defense developed from it, and he did nothing else to enhance his system, then the system itself stops to grow.

I'd like to think that we as martial artist look forward to developing ourselves, and not get stuck on whether or not a system was still being taught by it's original founder. I mean it's important to know and understand the past, but like the 'ol adadge says, "onward and upward".

Everyone's decision to train in a certain system is up to each individual. What your experiences are with the system is also yours. But for those who happen to peruse the forum for information, don't let it make your final decision for you. Just my 2cents.

 

[CoolKempoDude]

kidkarate,

I'm very interested in hearing * everything you know about karaho* here.

pls share with us what you know ok?

thanks

 

[CoolKempoDude]

kara-ho is a very CONTROVERSIAL topic because it is prof chow's art.

i have heard many things and i also read people's post about kara-ho and the current grandmaster of karaho.

I want to believe in what people have to say BUT Nobody understands what was going on in this karaho thing because it is very complex and involves politics and other things.


frankly, this is one of the mysteries which we will never find out completely.

 

[CoolKempoDude]

Originally posted by kidkarate
And Steven Chow, never received a black belt from Professor Chow but was a black belt in a Japanese System

i read somebody's posts here about this person.

they said that he knows chow's art and you said he doesn't know chow's art

wtf is going on here?????

2 sides with different stories :soapbox:

 

[Rich Parsons]

Kid Karate

The Federal Government is quite large.

You being an attorney and knowing al thisinfomration, I just want to know which department do I call?

Do you have a phone number, I can call to find out about what you have sais? How about one of hte law books you say you are being taught from. I would really like to read this this federal law.

:asian:

 

[Matt]

Originally posted by Michael Billings
kidkarate, I do not believe that the content of a form can be "copywrite protected", as it is not necessarily "written, which is what copywrite law applies to. So that is good information. But in no case can a "System" be protected, the names of the techniques could be protected, or the name of the system could be copywritten, but not the actual techniques or forms.

Devices can be patented, but I cannot imagine a "behavior" or any pattern of motion or response, whether dance, martial arts forms, or how you mow your yard, being protected in such a way that is legally binding or valid. Can you imagine "copywriting" a ballet, not the music, which can be, but the dance itself? Hmmmm...?

Please see the 'copyright a form' thread - there is some specific info as to what can and can't be protected, and I even think they use a ballet in one of the examples.

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/sh...&threadid=11510

 

[CoolKempoDude]

Originally posted by Matt
Please see the 'copyright a form' thread - there is some specific info as to what can and can't be protected, and I even think they use a ballet in one of the examples.

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/sh...&threadid=11510

your link doesn't work.

 

[Pacificshore]

i have heard many things and i also read people's post about kara-ho and the current grandmaster of karaho.

I want to believe in what people have to say BUT Nobody understands what was going on in this karaho thing because it is very complex and involves politics and other things. [/B]

what politics and other things

 

[Matt]

Originally posted by CoolKempoDude
your link doesn't work.

Whoops, sorry. It's in the General martial arts section because it refers to two other martial arts in the example.

It's under:
MartialTalk.Com > Arts > General Martial Arts Talk > Copyrighting a kata

I'll try a link again.

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11510

Matt