Kamon Vid

[KamonGuy2]

Here is a new promo video produced by Kamon
Feel free to comment and lend advice

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cl_XjTGBNbg

The team behind this are looking at doing more videos and will happily accomodate what people want to see

 

[bully]

Nice video, pretty professional too.

A good showcase for WC and your classes.

Wish you were in my area.

 

[profesormental]

Greetings.

Very nice vid. And very nice place they got there!

I advise people not to go to that street... many fights break out there!!

Also, even though it looks cool and is satisfying (yet less filling!), beating up people in that way could be seen as felony assault, since the dude clearly gave up a while ago before being pounded and stomped.

What would be a more realistic scenario?

What if the dude drops or tries to run away after the first hits? What if you had to run away for tactical reasons?

Again, this is for consideration here, since for promos, running away for your life doesn't look that cool!

Enjoy! And make more!

Juan M. Mercado

 

[Tez3]

Greetings.

Very nice vid. And very nice place they got there!

I advise people not to go to that street... many fights break out there!!

Also, even though it looks cool and is satisfying (yet less filling!), beating up people in that way could be seen as felony assault, since the dude clearly gave up a while ago before being pounded and stomped.

What would be a more realistic scenario?

What if the dude drops or tries to run away after the first hits? What if you had to run away for tactical reasons?

Again, this is for consideration here, since for promos, running away for your life doesn't look that cool!

Enjoy! And make more!

Juan M. Mercado

We don't have felony assault here, it looks perfectly legal by our standards, as it was 'reasonable force' which allowable under our laws. We can even strike first if in fear of our lives.
However I never use underpasses at night!

 

[KamonGuy2]

Ironically, I got the same response from our administrator at Kamon, who basically said it did come across as overkill

I think in our eagerness to show the street effectiveness of wing chun we did come across as a bit violent lol

But these comments are appreciated. I might do another vid where we control our opponent using wing chun as opposed to smashing him in

Is there anything you guys would like to see in future vids? I'm buying a camcorder on Thursday (yay) so will be able to do a bit more. But I would like to tailor make it. Criticism has already appeared on MAP because I didn't show certain techniques etc and they think it looked crap

Obviously we can't break down technique after technique (students wouldn't bother coming to class if we did that - they'd just watch it on youtube) but if there is something you'd like to see, please let us know (and please don't say 'good wing chun')

 

[matsu]

nice vid mate.
few things spring to mind...if you dont mind the critique?
1.poss a lil overkill on the strikes once the opponent was down, you dont want prospective pupils to think thats the norm?
2. and poss with the female-go for finger strikes to show how easy a bigger opponent can be taken apart-something sifu james always says- girls are evil

but second the notion, wish you were nearer!
matsu

 

[Tez3]

If there's no witnesses overkill is permissable lol! If I were taking your statement I would have put it down to adrenaline and shock at being attacked! Street attacks aren't 'pretty' and you response shouldn't be either.
You do have to be careful to put the legal side of reasonable force to your students but you also don't want them not doing enough to survive the attack.

 

[KamonGuy2]

If there's no witnesses overkill is permissable lol! If I were taking your statement I would have put it down to adrenaline and shock at being attacked! Street attacks aren't 'pretty' and you response shouldn't be either.
You do have to be careful to put the legal side of reasonable force to your students but you also don't want them not doing enough to survive the attack.

Nice comments guys and this is why I like this forum. Certain other forums have posted unhelpful comments such as ‘Rubbish’ or ‘You call that good wing chun?’ etc

We know we aren’t the dogs boll*cks with regards to martial arts. Certainly our group try to be as realistic as possible (rather than making them believe that a single punch will be enough etc), but we still have a lot of work to do

Criticisms are always welcome – that is how we learn! If we had made the perfect vid, I would have been very surprised

This is the first of a few videos we hope to make and we will try to include things people have requested to see

When we filmed the street scenarios there was no planning involved. We obviously timed the walking into each other etc, but the ‘attacks’ were random, hence why they are a bit messy. I was trying to go for as little choreography as possible

Please also remember that whilst we are an okay skill level, there is MUCH better skill in Kamon (they tend to be a bit shy though!). I am proud of my students, but some of them have only been training for a couple of years and they are very good for the length of time they have been training

If there is anything you would really like to see, please let us know. There are certain things we aren’t meant to record for youtube such as forms etc, but if you post a message or even PM me I will endeavour to get them filmed

Thanks again

 

[futsaowingchun]

Not Bad..I liked. I did not have any audio so I don't know what was said but it was good. NOt to flashing.I like to see demo like how a normal class is done on a regular base.

 

[mook jong man]

Great stuff , good chun , down and dirty the way it is supposed to be . Anybody who thinks that is rubbish would not know there head from their **** .
I saw nothing in that video that was not direct or couldn't be applied in a realistic street situation.

I liked the take down using the one leg on the standing opponent , it is good to see that your school works on that grey area between groundfighting and standing , which is fighting from the knees or a sitting position when the opponent is standing .

A very difficult position to fight from and one that a lot of schools neglect to even practice at all.

 

[KamonGuy2]

Great stuff , good chun , down and dirty the way it is supposed to be . Anybody who thinks that is rubbish would not know there head from their **** .
I saw nothing in that video that was not direct or couldn't be applied in a realistic street situation.

I liked the take down using the one leg on the standing opponent , it is good to see that your school works on that grey area between groundfighting and standing , which is fighting from the knees or a sitting position when the opponent is standing .

A very difficult position to fight from and one that a lot of schools neglect to even practice at all.

Thanks man. I think sometimes people just say mean things for the hell of it. It certainly isn't a perfect vid (it's our first attempt), but I've bought a camcorder today so I should be able to shoot some more stuff. I tried to avoid getting too preachy and was hoping that the wing chun haters would start to see how the chun is used in real fights etc

I've been in that position so many times in fights and realised that I hadn't worked any techniques from that position. My training partners got together and designed that move. I think its a bit similar to the 'Gracie grab' in BJJ, but works better for a chunner because we use our body more than our arms in that position

There is another defence that I was eventually taught, but I hated it. It was the one where you are in a sitting position with one leg propping you up and one leg extended horizontally. Many BJJ guys use it, but I find it is very risky (ie you have to be very good at it or your opponent will easily get you)

 

[geezer]

Well, I finally got to see the video... I can't get youtube at work. And that's actually good thing, I guess. Anyway, I enjoyed it. I can see why people talked trash about it, though. As Futsao said, it's not super flashy. Nope. Just good, straightforward WC. And a lot like what we do. Good job. I'm looking forward to the next one.

 

[profesormental]

Greetings.

I forgot to mention, that it is important to have a very specific aim for the effect the video can have.

If you want to show your skills, then you make it a certain way. If you want to attract certain types of students (specific demographic), then it should be tailored for that.

People that have been victimized in the streets will find appeal in the vids like that. Other people will react from where they are from... so don't take them into consideration, since they will not pay your bills.

Hope that helps. And keep making them vids and making them better for your purposes.

Juan M. Mercado

 

[mook jong man]

Thanks man. I think sometimes people just say mean things for the hell of it. It certainly isn't a perfect vid (it's our first attempt), but I've bought a camcorder today so I should be able to shoot some more stuff. I tried to avoid getting too preachy and was hoping that the wing chun haters would start to see how the chun is used in real fights etc

I've been in that position so many times in fights and realised that I hadn't worked any techniques from that position. My training partners got together and designed that move. I think its a bit similar to the 'Gracie grab' in BJJ, but works better for a chunner because we use our body more than our arms in that position

There is another defence that I was eventually taught, but I hated it. It was the one where you are in a sitting position with one leg propping you up and one leg extended horizontally. Many BJJ guys use it, but I find it is very risky (ie you have to be very good at it or your opponent will easily get you)

Take a look at this , although this guy made several fundamental errors before he ended up on the ground . If you ever needed to reaffirm your belief in needing to be able to fight from the ground this will do it .

It is a gang assault at one of our train stations in Melbourne by a Sudanese gang on a small guy , I mention their race only because if you have ever seen Sudanese they are freakishly tall , anyway we have a bit of a youth gang problem with some of them in our cities.

They followed this guy and punched him to the ground and gave him a kicking so hard his head was bouncing off the wall . Using some of the techniques from your video this guy would at least of been able to take down one or two of the attackers while he was on the ground or at least get so close to them to deny them any space to generate a powerful kick .

Probably would have been a good idea for him to get his arms up to shield his head against the kicks , or at least take most of the sting out of them. I have done a bit of experimentation in deflecting various types of kicks from a sitting position on the floor and I found that the most effective defence is what we call Seung Bong a two handed deflection with one forearm on top of the other.

Because of the inability to pivot you will still tend to take a lot of force on the arms . But you can still manage to turn a little bit with the upper body and as long as the deflection is moving on contact with the leg then you can spread the force a little over both forearms and take a fair bit of the force out of the kick , your arms might get broken if you don't time it properly but its got to be better than being kicked in the face.

From this position if you are quick enough you can even capture the leg and do a take down from there.

Have you done much work against stopping kicks from the floor in your school and if so what did you think were the most effective techniques ?

 

[KamonGuy2]

Take a look at this , although this guy made several fundamental errors before he ended up on the ground . If you ever needed to reaffirm your belief in needing to be able to fight from the ground this will do it .

It is a gang assault at one of our train stations in Melbourne by a Sudanese gang on a small guy , I mention their race only because if you have ever seen Sudanese they are freakishly tall , anyway we have a bit of a youth gang problem with some of them in our cities.

They followed this guy and punched him to the ground and gave him a kicking so hard his head was bouncing off the wall . Using some of the techniques from your video this guy would at least of been able to take down one or two of the attackers while he was on the ground or at least get so close to them to deny them any space to generate a powerful kick .

Probably would have been a good idea for him to get his arms up to shield his head against the kicks , or at least take most of the sting out of them. I have done a bit of experimentation in deflecting various types of kicks from a sitting position on the floor and I found that the most effective defence is what we call Seung Bong a two handed deflection with one forearm on top of the other.

Because of the inability to pivot you will still tend to take a lot of force on the arms . But you can still manage to turn a little bit with the upper body and as long as the deflection is moving on contact with the leg then you can spread the force a little over both forearms and take a fair bit of the force out of the kick , your arms might get broken if you don't time it properly but its got to be better than being kicked in the face.

From this position if you are quick enough you can even capture the leg and do a take down from there.

Have you done much work against stopping kicks from the floor in your school and if so what did you think were the most effective techniques ?

Yes we have done lots of work stopping kicks from the floor and ground defence
You have to remember that the head of our federation (Kevin Chan) is also a black belt in BJJ and trains heavily in Muay Thai and boxing

Therefore, we experience the best from all these worlds. Interestingly enough, Sifu Chan tends to use more wing chun than BJJ from those kind of positions, but at the end of the day it is best to use what works rather than trying to fit your wing chun to defend every situation

A good guard is key, sticking close to one opponent (ie dont get too far away where people can use leverage and swinging kicks). Get in close and take the fight to them. You will get 'touched' by knees and feet when you do defensive work - ie don't think that you'll become unvulnerable even if you train for years

I have actually been in that position before (on the floor getting stamped on), which is why I like to train 'awkward poaitions'. Too many chunners train too nicely. They train perfect scenarios and hope for the best

I will endeavour to make some videos of me doing some floor stuff

 

[mook jong man]

I will endeavour to make some videos of me doing some floor stuff

That would be great , its a scenario that many chunners prefer not to think about . But the chances are high against multiple attackers that one of them might get in a cheap shot from the side or behind and you may end up on the deck .

Hopefully you might only be a little dazed and not unconscious , and in a dire situation like that having some sort of strategies in place could make all the difference when they start putting the boot in from all directions.

 

[KamonGuy2]

That would be great , its a scenario that many chunners prefer not to think about . But the chances are high against multiple attackers that one of them might get in a cheap shot from the side or behind and you may end up on the deck .

Hopefully you might only be a little dazed and not unconscious , and in a dire situation like that having some sort of strategies in place could make all the difference when they start putting the boot in from all directions.

Yeah that is the trouble. Perfecting techniques against one opponent is easy. It is when you start getting multiple attackers that you have to worry. If it was one on one and I got knocked to the ground I would have no trouble re-engaging. But when more people are involved it becomes a lot tougher because it is more random. It is like learning to juggle with one ball. Easy. But then you throw in three balls and it suddenly becomes a lot more difficult to work with

Obviously conditioning helps, but in that position ii is easy for someone to get powerful kicks in if you let them

I've seen some of the Bozteppi stuff done from the floor position. It is good for one on one but not very good for multiple attackers