Just started Kenpo, style to go with?

[Bajor]

Hello all!

Sorry if this question has been asked before but I recently started American Kenpo (which is great I might add!) and I was wondering what martial arts would be good to cross train with it, if any? I'm not sure how "complete" kenpo is although so far to me it seems mostly a hands/feet striking art.
I have no prior martial arts experience so any suggestions would be good... also, is it better to train two simultaneously or get relatively good at Kenpo first?
Thank you my friends, peace!

 

[Zoran]

My advise is not to cross train until about brown, or black belt. You need to establish a base. As a beginner, you will have your hands full just learning the basics. Cross-training will only add to the confusion.

Although, an occasional seminar in another art is okay.

 

[Les]

Bajor,

I have to agree with Zoran, it's too early to start thinking about cross training yet. (Do you already have any martial arts skills)

As you work your way through the Kenpo syllabus you'll find that there is a lot more to it than hands and feet striking.

You'll get that impression at first because your instructor has to have you build your foundations before you can put up a tower block.

Kenpo is structured to be a workable self defence system right from the start, so you learn to use the hands and feet first as they are the most versatile of your natural weapons.

Cross training is great later in your training, as Zoran has already said, around Brown or Black belt level. And there will be benefits to cross training then apart from learning extra skills.

Be patient, lay down good foundations, (basics) and everything else will follow.

Les

 

[gravity]

Hey,

Like the others have mentioned its important first to establish a good base. Without it you won't know whether you're coming or going.

With that said, I came into American Kenpo after 2 years of Japanese Ju jitsu training and found that I was able to pick things up faster then other students. Also the lock flows, restraints, falling and all the other good stuff I picked up from my previous training was directly applicable to Kenpo.....nothing wasted

I also read in Mr Lee Wedlake's article in Black belt some months ago how kali, jujitsu and Chin Na can help a kenpo practioner improve their knowledge, particularly grappling.

-LATER-

 

[c2kenpo]

I also asked that question when I started with Kenpo. And I was informed of the same thing. One other thing they brought up is then your commitment to the ART. If you are busy cross-traiing in another art how do you say your dedicating enough time to the ART.
It also bears the question of confusing principles from one to another as there are subtle differences between arts.
Best to wait.
When I am ready to cross train I"m personally not sure what I want to cross train in yet.

JMHO

 

[arnisador]

I'm not a kenpoka but I'd agree with the general advice--unless it's something like judo, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, etc., that is teaching very different types of techniques, cross-training now would likely just hinder your progress. Wait a few years first.

 

[cdhall]

Originally posted by Zoran

My advise is not to cross train until about brown, or black belt. You need to establish a base. As a beginner, you will have your hands full just learning the basics. Cross-training will only add to the confusion.

Although, an occasional seminar in another art is okay.

I'm with Zoran. If I remember correctly, my original instructor would not permit anyone to study another art (occasional seminars were OK though) until you made it to Black for reasons similar to those expressed on this thread.
:asian:

 

[Elfan]

Originally posted by Bajor

I'm not sure how "complete" kenpo is although so far to me it seems mostly a hands/feet striking art.
I have no prior martial arts experience so any suggestions would be good... also, is it better to train two simultaneously or get relatively good at Kenpo first?
Thank you my friends, peace!

This is something that I think it would be okay to ask your instructor directly about. Some AK people integreate grapling, sticks, knives, etc. while others teach it as a "hands/feet striking art." Either way though the base of the art is staying on your feet and stirking with your hands.

As this is your first martial arts experince I say stick with Kenpo for now if you like it.

 

[Klondike93]

... what makes you think you need to cross train?

I'm with everyone else on this one, wait till you've been in it for a couple of years or so and then see if you need to cross train.

Hopefully GD will chime in and give you more reasons why you won't need to



:asian:

 

[Robbo]

Let me relate a recent experiance.

My sister in law is enrolled in a school that has a base of Goju-Ryu. But they also break out the weapons into Kobudo. They also have a Tai Chi class. They have seperate rankings in each area. So you could be Blue belt in one, black belt in another, etc. To put it simply they have a lot of %#% going on in their school. She is a blue belt currently and expressed a desire to cross train......Why? I have NO idea. You'd think she'd have enough on her hands. I think alot of people just like to cross train because it's the "IN" thing to do right now.

Another thing is that a Black Belt only represents that you know the basics, basically you can kick and punch and MAYBE pull off a self defense techinque in the ideal way.

At my last school we had instructors that were good at sparring, others that were good at throws, others that were good at striking (generating power). Did they cross train...NO. They investigated what they were studying and focused on a specific part and made themselves better in that area as a result.

Forget about cross training until black belt at least....and ONLY if you feel the system you are studying has a serious deficiency in a particular aspect eg. throwing or grappling.

Rob

 

[tarabos]

Originally posted by Robbo

I think alot of people just like to cross train because it's the "IN" thing to do right now.

actually, if you ask me, the "IN" thing right now is spotting weaknesses in respective arts and styles and filling in the gaps that you think are there. hey, it's good to fill in gaps, but you have to get a good understanding of a system before you can identify all of them. people are so worried these days about what styles and fighting techniques they aren't doing, that they are neglecting the style that they ARE doing. thus, the proficiency in their main dedication is not what it could or should be, so more often than not, the "incompleteness" of the style is blamed, when the blame should be put on the person. no style is "complete," but you can take A LOT from any style if you just stick with it and milk it to the fullest extent that you can and really try to understand it.

 

[tarabos]

in addition, i don't want to give Bajor the wrong impression of the kenpo people here. We've all stated that we think cross-training so early is a bad idea and given valid and informative reasons. i don't want you to think that we are all stuck up and think you should not do anything else ever. do whatever you feel will help you improve yourself.

since you asked i will give you some styles that i think will complement kenpo well.

Fillipino Martial Arts have very many similarities to American Kenpo. It's actually hard NOT to find an AK practitioner that hasn't at least been somewhat exposed to FMA. You would be well served by studying FMA, especially since Kenpo does not focus on weapons very much.

any type of boxing or kickboxing is a good idea to get experience in.

BJJ is of course an option for groundwork, but don't count out other arts like Judo...

Like i said, take whatever you want to, but don't let it distract you too much from becoming proficient in Kenpo or the supplemental art you choose. Two different arts at the same time would not be all that bad at a beginning level, but i would still stick with straight Kenpo for a year or two at least.

 

[Nightingale]

if you MUST crosstrain (which is probably not a real good idea), go with some kind of grappling, since kenpo covers your standing up and striking stuff really well.

 

[Seig]

Originally posted by nightingale8472

if you MUST crosstrain (which is probably not a real good idea), go with some kind of grappling, since kenpo covers your standing up and striking stuff really well.

Sorry to disagree with you.
It covers the grappling very well too. If your instrcutor does not teach the falls well, then you may want to consider finding someone to teach them to you, but as for Kenpo not containing grappling, nonsense. I have studied Jiu-Jitsu as well as Kenpo and find the Kenpo material works EXTREMELY well in a grappling scenario, all the same rules still apply.

 

[Zoran]

I knew this would come up...sigh

Originally posted by Seig

Sorry to disagree with you.
It covers the grappling very well too. If your instrcutor does not teach the falls well, then you may want to consider finding someone to teach them to you, but as for Kenpo not containing grappling, nonsense. I have studied Jiu-Jitsu as well as Kenpo and find the Kenpo material works EXTREMELY well in a grappling scenario, all the same rules still apply.

First are you talking about stand-up grappling or ground fighting.

Second, have you ever trained with a grappler, usually the MMA or BJJ, type. If not, it can be an eye opener.

Third, I do agree with you that the Kenpo material does work very well in grappling. That is, if you have a instructor who is able to incorporate it into the curriculum.

I've also had some formal training in Jiu Jitsu. JJ is completely diferent from BJJ.

 

[bdparsons]

perfect your basics in the system your in. This should be at the high brown/black belt level. I wouldn't worry about cross training until you are extremely comfortable in the style you're currently in. If you feel it may be lacking in a certain area, talk to your instructor. Most syles are taught in a building-block manner. You may find that you just haven't reached the point where certain things are taught. First and foremost make sure you are comfortable with the instructor, then stick with it.

One note of caution: When you reach the intermediate level of any art you choose, you will likely begin to second-guess your style and your instructor. Practically everybody does it at one time or another. I call this the "Green Belt Expert" level. There is a large drop-out rate at this level because one of three things happen: a) You as a student see how much more there is to cover before reaching black belt, feel that it is too much and also feel that you've learned enough to take care of yourself, which usually isn't the case. (This is especially true of arts with a lot of material such as Kenpo and Hapkido.) or b) Your instructor doesn't have the "awe" factor they had when you began. You're used to them, and feel bored with their methods of teaching. Not that it's bad, it's just "the same old thing week in and week out". or c) a combination of the a and b.

There are thousands of "Green Belt Experts" out there, bouncing from school to garage to back yards to schools... you get the picture. Wouldn't be surprised if there are more than a few that frequent forums such as this one, trying to impress everyone with their "knowledge". Guard heavily against this syndrome! You'll only be cheating yourself. Get a solid grounding in one art, whichever you choose, then move on. When you do you will not only discover new things, but you will learn to appreciate the strengths of your original art.

Respects,
Bill Parsons

 

[Michael Billings]

And I totally agree with it. I know the Green Belt drop out rate is high, but never heard it articulated so well. It is true that you spend about as much time in Brown as you did in the other "colored" belts, at least in the old 24 technique system. It moves a little faster in the 16 technique charts, but not all that much faster.

Stick with one instructor, make sure you give it a good chance to soak in.

-Michael

 

[rmcrobertson]

Sounds about right to me. I was lucky, around green, to be around a bunch who could obviously punt my tail to the moon.

It was then that I formulated my own kenpo saying: "I know just enough about martial arts to get myself into serious trouble, and not nearly enough to get myself out."

Thanks,
Robert

 

[Nightingale]

Everyone says "kenpo works well in groundfighting." It may. But how many schools actually teach kenpo in a groundfighting situation?

 

[tarabos]

Originally posted by nightingale8472

Everyone says "kenpo works well in groundfighting." It may. But how many schools actually teach kenpo in a groundfighting situation?

probably more than you would think, but still not very many. and those who do won't dedicate much time to it....maybe a class every three weeks or something like that. but kenpo is a stand-up art...let's face it.

i don't understand why people are so quick to jump on others that say kenpo doesn't have a lot of groundwork training in it. yeah, it's there, it's available, but it's not the focus. most of the strike can be done on the ground, but it's mainly stand up. it's almost like saying you'll be proficient against someone with a knife because you learned 5 or 6 knife techniques from the syllabus. some of those knife techniques can get you killed.