Jui-jitsu and Kuatsu

Discussion in 'Jujutsu / Judo' started by frank raud, Jun 10, 2017.

  1. frank raud

    frank raud Master Black Belt

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    I have been collecting martial arts books for a long time, just got a copy of this book in the mail, and at first glance I am impressed by the size of this beast. 915 pages long. And yes, jui-jitsu is how it is spelled out on the cover. It is on the art(s) of Professor Kam Hock Hoe. Should keep me entertained until the next book comes in the mail(next week).
     
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  2. Buka

    Buka Grandmaster

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    That looks like it's going to be a really interesting read. (I just googled it) Let us know about it.
     
  3. JP3

    JP3 Master Black Belt

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    At that size it should keep you occupied until 2019!
     
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  4. Tony Dismukes

    Tony Dismukes Senior Master

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    I did some googling and found some history on Mr. Hoe and his art and organization, but nothing on a book with that title. Where did you find it?
     
  5. frank raud

    frank raud Master Black Belt

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    Online from a bookstore in Australia. Postage cost more than the book.
     
  6. Tony Dismukes

    Tony Dismukes Senior Master

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    Definitely post a review once you get through it.
     
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  7. frank raud

    frank raud Master Black Belt

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    That's a normal sized business card leaning against the book
     

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  8. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    Sounds interesting. I look forward to your review. Since I don't plan to wait until 2019 when you finish the book, I'm hoping you'll have a review of the first 200 pages, or something. :p
     
  9. frank raud

    frank raud Master Black Belt

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    Found a former student of this style of jui jitsu, who has a judo background and a is a black belt in the same style of jiu jitsu as me. Last night we started a conversation on comparisons, will be interesting to have him help explain the techniques in the book.
     
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  10. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    Oh, nice find! That's my favorite kind of discussion in MA.
     
  11. frank raud

    frank raud Master Black Belt

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    So, I haven't finished the book yet, but from what I have read and in discussion with a former student of the style, it is an interesting style. many of the throws have the obvious intention of having uke land on his head. The book does take some deciphering, as with only two pictures per throw and a short paragraph or sentence to describe the sequence, information is minimal. The book was published for the students of the style, not to attempt to teach to non students. Once you get past the section on breakfalls, each technique gets usually one page for explanation. With 915 pages, you can imagine there are a lot of techniques1
     
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  12. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    Holy crap, Frank. Are they really quite different techniques, or are there a lot of variations? I know in some Japanese styles, they have distinctions of "technique" that are very different from what we use. We only have 50 "official" techniques in NGA, and maybe a dozen or so others that I teach beyond that (that doesn't include strikes and blocks, for some reason we've never called those "techniques").

    Is the style similar enough to something you're familiar with to make the book reasonably intelligible, being that sparse? I'm quite interested in tracking a copy down, myself, if I might be able to follow along with a significant portion. Something new to tinker with, you know?
     
  13. frank raud

    frank raud Master Black Belt

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    From what I've seen so far, they are different techniques. Looking at the index, there are only a few instances where it show "technique x ver 1" and "technique x ver 2". The throwing stance seems to be fairly consistent(low and wide), so with previous knowledge of jiu jitsu, I think someone could figure at least some of it out.
     
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  14. frank raud

    frank raud Master Black Belt

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    I'm surprised there has been no comment from @Chris Parker , this being Australian and the spelling alone usually would send him in a tizzy;)
     
  15. BrendanF

    BrendanF Yellow Belt

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    I think he's in Japan, likely busy training.
     
  16. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Grandmaster

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    Ha, no... while the book may have indeed come from Australia (via a bookseller site here), it's not an Australian publication from the looks of things... Prof. Kam Hok Hoe was largely based in Malaysia and Singapore for much of his life... and, as far as the spelling, you highlight that that was the spelling used on the book in your first post, Frank... so I'm not about to correct you on your own eyes ability to see, ha! And, just as an aside, sitting next to me right now is a copy of "The Complete Kano Jiu-Jitsu [Judo]" from H. Irving Hancock and Katsukuma Higashi... dating from 1905. I've never had an issue with old texts using other transliterations, just with people continuing to use inaccurate ones now...

    Hey Brendan,

    No, not yet.... a few things forced it to be pushed back a bit, I'll be there in a month. Looking forward to it immensely! And yeah, when I'm there, I don't think I've allotted much time for things like sleeping or eating... ha!
     
  17. BrendanF

    BrendanF Yellow Belt

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    Bah - can't miss out on the eating!! Enjoy.. I'm hoping to get over there shortly, maybe jan or feb. Say hi to everyone in kawasaki for me!
     
  18. oftheherd1

    oftheherd1 Senior Master

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    A google of the book title led to:

    Results for 'su:Jiu-jitsu Handbooks, manuals, etc.' [WorldCat.org] - with a link that led to:

    Jiu jitsu: a manual of the science. With special chapters on unarmed attack and defence for the Navy and Army and Throws, holds and truncheon work for the regular and special constabulary. (Book, 1920) [WorldCat.org] - with a link that led to:

    Results for 'au:McLaglen, Leopold.' [WorldCat.org]

    Apparentlhy a person who wrote more than one book. Possibly a person who spent time in Japan and then wrote about some things he learned, but for westerners? Looks interesting. Do let us know what you think of the book and style, and what you learn from the practitioner you are in touch with.
     

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