JKD instructors

[IFAJKD]

Mr. Drake: First I have to say that it's too bad that this is so one demensional. No facial expression or voice influx. Much communication is gone. I don't mean in any sense that you haven't thought for yourself.
You need to know that I really do enjoy this. I don't mean to hammer your skills. That being said, I have to coninue. I thought I was clear in your quote that by saying "might have" in regards to certifying Dan makes me question things from you a bit. Sorry to say but it is true that Dan was THE ONLY one allowed to teach after Bruce decided to close his schools. Linda will confirm this as will John Little, Dan Inosanto and Taky Kimura. The others you mention, to me have no weight but simply stories to tell in a seminar. Do they have anything to teach ? Stories.
On the issue of lineage, I agree that it is frightening to see some people out there teaching JKD after a seminar. Dan's students however that are listed as Full Instructors are not in this class. Again name one that cannot teach. Just one.
You also mention that these other yahoos spent years training with Bruce. Again, you have to put that into perspective. Bruce taught very few of those classes. Very few. People like Beasly, Lewis, and others in that camp are dangerous people when it comes to teaching others. They are imposters in the JKD world and an insult to those who have sought out cerdible instruction and labored to learn.
In truth, I could care less about OJKD vs JKDC battle. My loyality is to Dan Inosanto and his life's work and what he has done for all of us to be able to have these disscussions. Bruce was clear why he picked Dan to still teach, clear why Dan helped in the development of JKD, clear why he certified Dan in all three arts and No I don't think your assumption that he regretted it is accurate at all. If so he regretted it three seperate times. Brandon was clear with why he supported Dan in taking the mantel of JKD and at one time so was Linda.
I don't know how White Dragon can be sure of what he's getting. Doof us when we train with anyone in anything ? I do know that all the bitching over a governing body is one thing but the main problem is clean up. Cleaning up all those certified by ANYONE not certified by Dan, Taky or Bruce himself. Today that leaves Dan and Taky. From there you clear up all those seminar babies who have gotten paper from the seminars stating they can teach.
I am sorry if this insults you. I really mean no disrespect. You may be great at what you do but if not from these few sources( Dan or Taky) at some point, it is not JKD (certified) or authentic. It is your style that you and who ever taught you are proclaiming to teach and you drew from your exposure to JKD to create it. You become like a John Little maybe, and authority of sorts but that is different. I don't understand how this can even be argued. If someone teaching wasn't certified by someone given permission to do so then they are NOT CERTIFIED TO TEACH. This remains true even if it means you have to reframe how you look at the training you just spent years doing.
People operate to maintain homeostasis and it is rare to find those willing to see the truth if it may mean something for them has to change. What is the problem with finding someone certified to teach and credential you. Get that which you don't have. Bruce didn't understand that today if you want to teach, you need credentials. If not then have the courage to take what you have and teach "martial arts" without shame and with pride at your creation.

 

[jmdrake]

To IFAJKD,

Frankly I could care less if you think I teach JKD, I do. JKD isn't based on who Bruce certified. It's based on what Bruce did. You're whole argument is based on politics and frankly I could care less for any of it. I don't think you realize just how much I don't give a rats tail. This is the type of BS that Bruce was trying to avoid when he closed his schools. Obviously he failed. Also I don't know why you bring up Jerry Beasley. Beasley doesn't know what he's talking about. But then neither do some of the people certified by Dan. Remember when in a previous thread how I said some concepts people said goofy things like "Bruce didn't know about Thai Boxing"? Well I got that from a Burton Richardson article! So who is the "yahoo"? And if Linda Lee says that Dan was the only one who was allowed to teach privately then she is wrong. There were others such as Jesse Glover who got permission from Bruce to teach the things they learned from Bruce. Jesse called what him did "non classical Gung Fu" (similair to Dan calling the JKD core "Jun Fan Gung Fu" these days.) But for you to call him, Howard Williams and others "yahoos" shows that you are the one with the wool pulled over your eyes. Bruce Lee said "if people say that JKD is this or that then let the name itself go away." The name is just so that people can have a common language to share ideas about Bruce Lee's art. Instead the current sham is to move as far away from his art as possible while "preserving" a certificate. Whatever.

Regards,

John M. Drake

P.S. I could attend a seminar, get my "automatic apprentice instructorship" certificate and be listed at a certain website as an instructor. Would that make me ANY better? I doubt it!

Originally posted by IFAJKD

Mr. Drake: First I have to say that it's too bad that this is so one demensional. No facial expression or voice influx. Much communication is gone. I don't mean in any sense that you haven't thought for yourself.
You need to know that I really do enjoy this. I don't mean to hammer your skills. That being said, I have to coninue. I thought I was clear in your quote that by saying "might have" in regards to certifying Dan makes me question things from you a bit. Sorry to say but it is true that Dan was THE ONLY one allowed to teach after Bruce decided to close his schools. Linda will confirm this as will John Little, Dan Inosanto and Taky Kimura. The others you mention, to me have no weight but simply stories to tell in a seminar. Do they have anything to teach ? Stories.
On the issue of lineage, I agree that it is frightening to see some people out there teaching JKD after a seminar. Dan's students however that are listed as Full Instructors are not in this class. Again name one that cannot teach. Just one.
You also mention that these other yahoos spent years training with Bruce. Again, you have to put that into perspective. Bruce taught very few of those classes. Very few. People like Beasly, Lewis, and others in that camp are dangerous people when it comes to teaching others. They are imposters in the JKD world and an insult to those who have sought out cerdible instruction and labored to learn.
In truth, I could care less about OJKD vs JKDC battle. My loyality is to Dan Inosanto and his life's work and what he has done for all of us to be able to have these disscussions. Bruce was clear why he picked Dan to still teach, clear why Dan helped in the development of JKD, clear why he certified Dan in all three arts and No I don't think your assumption that he regretted it is accurate at all. If so he regretted it three seperate times. Brandon was clear with why he supported Dan in taking the mantel of JKD and at one time so was Linda.
I don't know how White Dragon can be sure of what he's getting. Doof us when we train with anyone in anything ? I do know that all the bitching over a governing body is one thing but the main problem is clean up. Cleaning up all those certified by ANYONE not certified by Dan, Taky or Bruce himself. Today that leaves Dan and Taky. From there you clear up all those seminar babies who have gotten paper from the seminars stating they can teach.
I am sorry if this insults you. I really mean no disrespect. You may be great at what you do but if not from these few sources( Dan or Taky) at some point, it is not JKD (certified) or authentic. It is your style that you and who ever taught you are proclaiming to teach and you drew from your exposure to JKD to create it. You become like a John Little maybe, and authority of sorts but that is different. I don't understand how this can even be argued. If someone teaching wasn't certified by someone given permission to do so then they are NOT CERTIFIED TO TEACH. This remains true even if it means you have to reframe how you look at the training you just spent years doing.
People operate to maintain homeostasis and it is rare to find those willing to see the truth if it may mean something for them has to change. What is the problem with finding someone certified to teach and credential you. Get that which you don't have. Bruce didn't understand that today if you want to teach, you need credentials. If not then have the courage to take what you have and teach "martial arts" without shame and with pride at your creation.

 

[jmdrake]

Originally posted by arnisador



What's this?

This is a principle that Bruce Lee got from Wing Chun. A WC could probably explain it better. The basic idea is that in the bai jong the elbow leads the body by about a fists distance. If an opponent can push your elbow in further than that then he can disrupt your structure. To prevent that one might use footwork to maintain structure or "running had" to flow around an opponents defense.

 

[Ron Prather]

"P.S. I could attend a seminar, get my "automatic apprentice instructorship" certificate and be listed at a certain website as an instructor. Would that make me ANY better? I doubt it!"

==I'm confused John. Are you dissing your own friend and instructor, Lamar Davis????

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by jmdrake

The basic idea is that in the bai jong the elbow leads the body by about a fists distance. If an opponent can push your elbow in further than that then he can disrupt your structure.

By coincidence, we did something very similar to this in class today out of hubbud but a name wasn't put to this particular idea. Thanks!

 

[jmdrake]

Originally posted by Ron Prather

"P.S. I could attend a seminar, get my "automatic apprentice instructorship" certificate and be listed at a certain website as an instructor. Would that make me ANY better? I doubt it!"

==I'm confused John. Are you dissing your own friend and instructor, Lamar Davis????

No Ron. Not even close!

 

[jmdrake]

Originally posted by arnisador



By coincidence, we did something very similar to this in class today out of hubbud but a name wasn't put to this particular idea. Thanks!

Hello arnisador,

Cool insight! One of the things I like about JKD is the ability to look at martial arts ideas from different perspectives. For example you can look at the "stop hit" from the Wing Chun or the fencing angle.

Regards,

John M. Drake

 

[IFAJKD]

John: A few things and I will let it go. First Arnisador I am not being disrespectful but I do want this post to stand. This is the JKD area of this site and as such some things have to be addressed. Back to JOhn:

John it's people like you atat are the problem in JKD. You read something and can't see past a line. You assume conclusions drom statements and always in a way to support the fact that you are a fraud. Burton is incredibly qualified and although I am not sure why he said what he said, I can't say I trust your interpretation. Funny how you have attacked the following people, (I am sure you will contest this in your response)
Linda Lee
John Little
Paul Vunak
Burton Richardson
Dan Inosanto

Obviously these people don't know what they are talking about.
You attack Dan in a very subtle way but you attack him just the same.

Fact: Dan and Taky alone has the right to certify people in JKD. There is even some discussion that Taky was actually certified in Jun Fan and never in JKD. Not sure on that one as Dan is too humble to make it an issue.

Fact: As much as you may take issue, Dan was the ONLY ONE allowed to teach after Bruce closed his schools. They closed in Dec of 69 and in Jan of 70 Dan opened his backyard up to those few students training at the time. Do you know who his students were. Dan Lee was one of Dan Inosanto's students ande had been since 1965. Dan as in L.A. Chinatown school taught 95 % of the classes and Bruce taught the rest.

Fact when Bruce changed to JKD from Jun Fan in 1966 more than the name changed.

Fact: Bruce honored titles of respect and told many of it. It was classical training that he despised not formality. He also vauled credentials.

Fact: Larmar Davis is certified by no one authorized to do so and as such neither are you. Lamar is a joke. You are simply "trying" to find facts to support your position of having no legitimate qualifications to teach anything related to JKD.

Don't confuse the issue by hiding behind paper credentials or Bruce hated this or thaause fankly you are so messed up about all that and you will also teach BS stories and lame opinions to people coming to this site for factual info.
Also don't muddy the water with OJKD vs JKDC crap. The OJKD people are legit as anyone JKDC. Providing they come from Taky or Dan. If they come from Dan they are JKD and JKD alone. There is no line between.

Now I know you don't care what I think but this is exactly the problem with people like you. You don't care. You just go out and teach and certify when you have no right to do so. Why don't you pursue a job as a surgeon. I'm sure you've watched enough of the Learning Channel.
Give me a break. You and Lamar and the rest of your BS group are frauds and jokes who have been brained washed to the point that you can justify anything.

Arnisador: Again I ask that you leave this post hereas this guy is a joke and people coming here to see and learn will be infected with some serious garbage. Sorry. I have tried to be respectful but this has got to stop. We need legitmate people not this.

 

[jmdrake]

Originally posted by IFAJKD

John: A few things and I will let it go. First Arnisador I am not being disrespectful but I do want this post to stand. This is the JKD area of this site and as such some things have to be addressed. Back to JOhn:

John it's people like you atat are the problem in JKD.

Hello IFAJKD,

First of all I stopped reading your silly post at this point. You need to step back and look at yourself in the mirror bro. All I've done is expressed my opinion (backed up with fact) and you've done nothing but attack me for doing that! Like I said in a seperate thread, it is YOUR type of attitude that causes ALL of the problems in JKD! The problem isn't Dan Inosanto. The problem isn't people who train DIRECTLY under Dan. The problem is from SOME people like yourself who train under people who trained under people who trained under Dan. You may have good intentions, but this whole "undying loyalty" thing is a bit cultish.

You seem to be incapable of even "agreeing to disagree". I'm happy to allow JKDC people to call what they do "JKD" even if it doesn't fit my own definition. I expect the same level of respect from the other side. Now let's talk about what we AGREE on! You think my certificate is not "authentic". I think yours is not worth the paper it's printed on. You think some of the people that I respect are "Yahoos" because they aren't certified by Dan or Bruce. I think some of the people you respect are "Yahoos" because they write things that don't make sense. We both have distain for Jerry Beasley, though I have respect for Joe Lewis. When Bruce Lee was alive he was VERY PROUD to have Joe Lewis as a student! As for the rumours of who claimed to spar/not spar with who, I don't care. People get quoted out of context. (Naw). Once Taky Kimura and another Bruce Lee student approached a well know Judoka and asked "There is a rumour going around that you beat our Sifu. Is this true?" The Judoka replied "this is the first I've heard of it."

Now that we've established that our mutual disrespect for each other as martial artists, is there any chance to getting back to discussing JKD? Or do you have to have a certificate that can be traced back to Dan Inosanto in order to do that here?

Regards,

John M. Drake

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Guys, I realize that this discussion has a lot of personal meaning to you both, but the heat factors getting a bit high.

Can you please agree to disagree, and take the areas you have issues with to PM?

I've been asked to step in here -before- things get so hot we have to play heavy, ya know?

Tis greatly appreciated.


Kaith
-MT Admin-

 

[IFAJKD]

Kaith:
I have always respected your requests in MT. com . I ask that you let this ride for several reasons. First:

1) people turn to many of us for direction to what is authentic and worth training in and what's not. In fact it was the nature of this thread was it not. To give these people a chance to train in the best systems they can they should know some of the crap that is being passed off as "real JKD"

2) If you look at my profile you will see that living in Minnesota it was no easy task to train with legitimate people. I struggled with this for over 20 years. I trained and studied my $%^ off and all to get as good as I could and have legitimate Instruction. In this sense it took me 28 years of martial arts training to get to this level of Instructorship. I am not a seminar student. I have and do train directly with Dan and Paul and have worked hard to give them the respect they deserve as pioneers by being as good as I could at doing and teaching.

3) I don't agree with seminar Instructors and caution everyone against them. I differentiate between those people and the Instructors like myself who have worked hard to get there.

4) Drake is attempting to muddy the waters by claiming this as an OJKD vs JKDC debate. It isn't. I respect and encourage OJKD and train it myself as well as JKDC (as if there is a difference) Drake is NOT OJKD. He is simply another problem. One that serves to mislead many others. I believe it's our responsibility to expose this kind of thing whenever we can. This reminds me of the Chung Mu Kwon scam. We exposed it and many people who read it left the post with a better understanding. Maybe even avoided a scam themselves.

5) My Instructorship and lineage couldn't get anymore legit. My skill has always spoke for itself and Drakes certificate is as legit as Beasly's. He's a "wanna be" and he will influence others because he has the *&^^% to go out there and claim to legitimately teach JKD.
Chtu, who to the best of my knowledge has never trained in JKD but has studied it extensively does not claim to be an Instructor of JKD yet he understands it better than John ever will. Better than many actually ever will. I have said my piece and will let it rest but...yes, I do take it seriously and I guess I fight for what I think. Maybe too much huh. I also don't want to see others mislead by people like this.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

To everyone : Polite debate, and factual info are welcome. Personal attacks, and character assassination are not. I'll let this one stay open for now, but keep it civil, please.


:asian:



(edited to clarify) - Kaith

 

[jmdrake]

Everything that I've said
has been backed up by verifiable facts. Especially
what I said about Jesse Glover. He went to Bruce
and asked for permission to teach. Bruce told him
he could teach what he learned but he couldn't
call it JKD because JKD represented changes Bruce
made after Seattle. I don't know why you find that
fact so threatening, but its a fact. Also Dan
was not given permission to keep open a public
school, only a private "backyard" school. You
seem to think that's the same think. I don't.
But you are entititled to your opinion.

Now let me tell you something else. You think you
know me, but you don't know JACK about me! I'm
not even TRYING to make money off of JKD so your
assinine comment about "brain surgery" or whatever
is really stupid. And for me it's not just about
Lamar. You called many other people that I have
a lot of respect for and YOU SHOULD have a lot of
respect for "Yahoos". People like Jesse Glover,
Howard Williams, Bob Bremer ect. That has NOTHING
to do with Lamar Davis because he isn't certified
under any of them. But they are good martial
artists and good people. You think Chtu knows
more about JKD then me? Based off of what?
Because he agrees with your version of the
straight blast (that to my knowlege Bruce never
used)? He does seem more knowlegeable than you
though, since you claim to have never even HEARD
of the "handball court" fight and he HAD. You
claimed that was another "BS" story. Chtu may
know more than me, I don't know. I'm here to
exchange ideas, not get caught up in political
foolishness.

Now, while you might not agree with "seminar
instructors" you belong to an organization that
encourages them. And that was my only point.
It's not an attempt to "muddy the waters" as
you falsely claim. It's simply a point that a
cert is no guarantee of knowlege or ability.
There are people who aren't certed such as
Jesse that know much more about Bruce's
art than some who are. They aren't "Yahoos".

Regards,

John M. Drake

P.S. To the moderator, I don't see how this can be anything
but personal attacks since that's all that Jim is interested in.
From the start I've been happy to say "I agree to disagree".
But I don't appreciate being essentially called a liar especially
when all I'm doing is giving my opinion based on verifiable
facts.

Originally posted by IFAJKD

Kaith:
I have always respected your requests in MT. com . I ask that you let this ride for several reasons. First:

1) people turn to many of us for direction to what is authentic and worth training in and what's not. In fact it was the nature of this thread was it not. To give these people a chance to train in the best systems they can they should know some of the crap that is being passed off as "real JKD"

2) If you look at my profile you will see that living in Minnesota it was no easy task to train with legitimate people. I struggled with this for over 20 years. I trained and studied my $%^ off and all to get as good as I could and have legitimate Instruction. In this sense it took me 28 years of martial arts training to get to this level of Instructorship. I am not a seminar student. I have and do train directly with Dan and Paul and have worked hard to give them the respect they deserve as pioneers by being as good as I could at doing and teaching.

3) I don't agree with seminar Instructors and caution everyone against them. I differentiate between those people and the Instructors like myself who have worked hard to get there.

4) Drake is attempting to muddy the waters by claiming this as an OJKD vs JKDC debate. It isn't. I respect and encourage OJKD and train it myself as well as JKDC (as if there is a difference) Drake is NOT OJKD. He is simply another problem. One that serves to mislead many others. I believe it's our responsibility to expose this kind of thing whenever we can. This reminds me of the Chung Mu Kwon scam. We exposed it and many people who read it left the post with a better understanding. Maybe even avoided a scam themselves.

5) My Instructorship and lineage couldn't get anymore legit. My skill has always spoke for itself and Drakes certificate is as legit as Beasly's. He's a "wanna be" and he will influence others because he has the *&^^% to go out there and claim to legitimately teach JKD.
Chtu, who to the best of my knowledge has never trained in JKD but has studied it extensively does not claim to be an Instructor of JKD yet he understands it better than John ever will. Better than many actually ever will. I have said my piece and will let it rest but...yes, I do take it seriously and I guess I fight for what I think. Maybe too much huh. I also don't want to see others mislead by people like this.

 

[IFAJKD]

1) You have no idea about my version of the blast

2) Bruce Lee used the blast constantly

3) most of your "facts" are not verifiable

4) I don't give people respect because the trained with Bruce Lee. It would be for many other reasons. I don't disrespect these people nor do I mean any disrespect for you as a martial artist

5) Never stated you are trying to make $ off JKD. If I did I
apologize. Just stop teaching something you were not certified to teach. It's misrepresentation.

6) For the record John, I don't believe you are a liar. I think you have been left with an opinion and impression based strongly on those trying to reinforce their own lack of qualified credentials. To do so they have to attack those who are legit.

In the end there is no argument. It is too simple and too clear to anyone who may be reading as to who is really qualified. and where to look for qualified Instructors. The original reason for this thread.
Thanks Kaith and the rest for patiently waiting this one out.

 

[arnisador]

This thread is now locked.

-Arnisador
-MT Mod-