Its hot in the kitchen

[Pervaz]

Since most (if not all) our systema (MR and VV) work is done on a slow basis - when is a good time to turn the heat up ? (I suppose this is the old age question of Scott Sannons(?) Soft vs Hard concepts)

Does it really matter which art you follow (I havent heard of arts which depend on strength and power vs fluidity, relax etc) ??

(more thoughts to follow)

P

 

[Furtry]

You can turn up the heat any time you like :shrug: . What your going to learn from it depends on when and with whom you turn it up. And if you didn't learn from it your in the wrong 'kitchen'.

 

[jellyman]

Since most (if not all) our systema (MR and VV) work is done on a slow basis

Actually, that varies quite a bit. 'Slow' is a relative term. In VV's school there are guys who like to go fast and hard too. It's a matter of confidence, and also a matter of how comfortable you are with being hit. Because if you do go hard, someone's going to get hit hard, and it may well be you. Many people have a hard (no pun intended) time accepting this, until they acquire some experience. But it's all psychological - nothing hurts that bad at the time really, even in a real fight. The big worry really is that you lose control of yourself from a (major/minor) concussion, and maybe some IQ points (which is important for me). (I stopped worrying about my face when I got married ).

There's this one senior student named Sasha at VV's club. Spends half the year in Serbia (where he runs another systema school). His classes are known for the emphasis on the Borba aspect (ie hitting a lot) because his background is primarily striking. I remember once I showed up to his class, and he had a back problem. He knew I had a BB and some experience in systema as well, so he had me be the second banana - show a couple subs, some grappling strategies, be his dummy for hitting etc. His teaching style (which I like to try and adopt for striking) was to show something slow, and then show it full-bore so we knew it would work. For example, I would kick him slow, he'd show the defense, then I'd kick him full-on, and he'd show it again.

Anyway, at one point he had us spar. He had us make a hollow fist for head shots - that way you could go fast, but the fist would collapse on impact, so you'd get some sting, but no major concussion - hit the head with respect, he called it. I teamed up with a (I later found out) a BB in judo and karate, with some attitude. Without getting too technical, I found my relaxed, I-got-hit-big-deal attitude really helped me. Most of his blows went through me like I was water (including a stomp to the head), and I was in position to impart damage very easily. The absorption skill is very important, and really works! I saw the stomp coming for example, and rather than panic, I consciously decided in that half-second that I was too late to avoid the hit completely, so I would just pull my center out of the path, and use the glancing energy to power a spin into my next move. I didn't even get dizzy, and I had him dead to rights in the mount shortly thereafter. This was about a year ago.

Of course, I would not rely on absorption as a primary defence, but my point is that everyone gets hit, and the ability to consciously relax and flow with it really does go a long way to nullifying damage.

In straight grappling it was even more interesting - the judo/karate bb was not a newaza specialist by any stretch, but still, he knew the basics. Pure systema guys (not that experienced either) were beating him! He was a bit upset. In fact, I've found that systema people are damned hard to sub, even people with 1 year experience. Must be all those 2-on-1 grappling drills we do - which can get pretty aggressive, I might add.

VV really switches up the pace of the classes quite a bit, and people who don't visit regular can get a view of systema that's sort of like the blind man feeling the elephant - they get a limited impression, because they haven't seen the whole thing. Unavoidable, of course, but I have come to fully realize that those tapes have very legitamate information, and if you for example, follow his advise given on H2H (assuming you know enough to really understand what he says), you will in fact be effective at speed.

Just make sure you buy the strikes DVD, it will revolutionize your game (well, mine anyway).

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by jellyman
Without getting too technical, I found my relaxed, I-got-hit-big-deal attitude really helped me.
[...]
Of course, I would not rely on absorption as a primary defence, but my point is that everyone gets hit, and the ability to consciously relax and flow with it really does go a long way to nullifying damage.

How do you reconcile a I-got-hit-big-deal attitude for empty hand with the attitude you have to take for knife fighting?

I don't mean this as a challenge--it applies in some way to every art (certainly we train to take some blows in the JKD I'm taking but avoid knives), and I'm curious!

 

[Arthur]

Its an issue of working form contact and reducing "fear reactivity" (if I can borrow that trerm for the moment). Learning to be soft against a knife can seriously decrease the amount of damnage done should the knife get that far. If you tense and react out of fear.. your stiffness will surely, ensure the knife does plenty of damage.

As Jellyman said,no is advocating absorbtion as a first line of defense, but should you need it, it is there, and because it is there you can work more efficiently and calmly bepofer you need it.

Whether we are dealing with blades or empty hands, this does not change.

Arthur

 

[jellyman]

I should note that I did some checking, and that was actually from 2 years ago.

arnisador - a good question, and if I may, I will expand on Arthur's good and succinct answer.

Just as someone will inevitably get hit if you go hard empty handed, someone will inevitably get cut/stabbed if you knife fight. That's the whole point, after all.

In the class I related, I didn't want to be hit, but I think the absorption helped me get the better of the exchange. I do not purposely try and get hit, understand, but I am not overly afraid of it. Taking hits from Mikhail will do that to you, I think. So in short, it was not perfection on my part, but mitigated failure. It's always the one you never see that gets you, so it's good to have a general softness as an attribute. And if you're going to try and have a go at hard sparring, it's especially neccessary. Think of it as a sort of built-in padding. A padding based on a skill, so unlike regular padding, it will always be with you, so long as you maintain it properly. Obviously some are better at it than others, and just as obviously nobody's claiming it will make you bulletproof.

As for knives, I think it is reasonable to say that it would be better to yield to the blade as much as possible rather than be stiff, as it would penetrate more deeply. It's the same idea - softness diminishes damage.

There are a couple excercises we do that are more specific to knives, besides the obvious sparring/attacking/defending with knives. One is soft work with live blades. Another is what VV calls 'scratching'. I only learned about 'scratching' and the llive blade work after that sparring session, although I doubt it was anyone's plan.

Anyway, the first you have to make a 'scratcher'. Find yourself a piece of wood like pine or something maybe 1/2" - 2/3" inch thick (or whatever is easy for you to make a fist around), and cut it so that it's ends protrude maybe 1/2" past the sides of your hands. Get a couple finishing nails and a file or grinder. Bang one nail halfway into each end, enoucg so it's in tight. If you're into overengineering, you can add some glue, but it's not neccessary. File the protruding heads to points, sharp enough to break skin (ie 'scratch'). Your partner now holds the scratcher in his fist, and slowly (at first anyway) extends and rolls his fist, trying to scratch you. Your job is to fend it off with your arms/hands by maintaining contact with the scratching arm. He can also try to scratch you arm/hands, which brings your whole body into play. This isn't a self-defense drill where you try and disarm the guy, this is a drill for you to get used to maintaining contact with a person who posseses an edged/pointed weapon. The body naturally becomes sort of 'springy'. If you don't have the patience to make a scratcher, you can also use a knife, although you then give up the dual icepick/hammer grip that the scratcher gives you to work with.

 

[Pervaz]

Some great answers giving me food for thought ...

Thanks

P

 

[arnisador]

Fascinating--thanks!