ITF and North Korea's United Front Department

[Dirty Dog]

Yeah, all sorted. Got my kukkiwon mate to do all the taegeks at my place the other night. There were heaps of short stances, looks strange when you're used to only seeing palgwes, with long, deep (shotokan looking) stances. Although I showed him the palgwes and he said they look 'strange'. Still cant find the short stance in palgwe 5, but I should be seeing my korean neighbour tonight and I will ask him to t ranslate 'hakdari-seogi' as you said if I find that, I will find the part you were talking about.

Hakdari-seogi is crane stance. Many people performing palgwe forms rush through this part, turning it into nothing more than a deep chamber for the side kick that follows.

 

[mastercole]

£275 for a book called 'The Terrorist List' with a bunch of names in it anyone can get off the internet by no-one I've heard of? You're having a Steffi Graf mate.


No one is denying what is reported by the BBC among others happened, but making accusations against the whole organisation which has branches in many countries is asking to be sued to be honest. I'm sure ITF here know about the incidents but as they weren't involved and you are saying that ITF is a terrorist organisation which is not just libel but defamation so you could land Bob in some serious money losing talks. Internet libel cases are becoming more common these days, because of the international nature of the internet, it may get twice as confusing and expensive. There's been a case recently on a UK martial arts forum where lawyers were involved, it got costly and quite nasty. The owners of the site are a Saudi Arabian company who own an MMA promotion and because the forum is international what was posted was seen in many countries. it got sorted without going to any courts but still a very expensive business though the lawyers would be happy at their fees.

Right, so you need to go back and read exactly what I wrote - and in context - so that you are very careful not to make libelous statements about what I actually posted, in context.

 

[mastercole]

You need to post links to these so people can read them. As you have made allegations againt the ITF organisation as a whole and you have non Americans here it means little I'm afraid for you to just say it's there, we need to see it.

I have posted them, and people have been reading them. Maybe you should go back and find them, then ACTUALLY read them, then you would be stressed.

 

[Tez3]

I have posted them, and people have been reading them. Maybe you should go back and find them, then ACTUALLY read them, then you would be stressed.

I'd be stressed? Dear boy I am never stressed roflmao. Unless of course you are threatening me? Now that would be serious...

 

[mastercole]

When the NK group attempted a coup in NK following the memorial service magicaly transforming it into a "Special Congress" appointing Chang Ung President which effectively caused a split in the ITF, some USTF people who were Federal government mployees were questioned as to their association with this NK group and would have to resign from the USTF because of the mess. Instead Sr. GM Sereff withdrew the USTF as a National governing body of the ITF.

Now we have first hand knowledge of the US Governments concern. But for some that might not be good enough, they might demand the names of those Federal Government Employees, or the superiors that questioned them, or else they could just be liars, which according to other logic I have read in this post, could make them murderers as well. Personally, I don't think it is a good idea to post the Federal employees names, actually, I recommend against it, strongly.

Of course maybe it was not really CHOI Hong Hi on his death bed, but a body double, planted by George Bush, or South Korea. Maybe CHOI Jung Hwa is really not CHOI Hong Hi's son and he was planted by George Bush and South Korea, so we should demand a DNA test of CHOI Jung Hwa, while we are at it, go to the Martyrs Hero Graveyard (or get someone who has a good relationship with the terrorist to go), dig up CHOI Hong Hi and also do a DNA test. Then we will know, maybe.

 

[mastercole]

I'd be stressed? Dear boy I am never stressed roflmao. Unless of course you are threatening me? Now that would be serious...

Threatening you? wow. Well............ thank goodness for the ignore feature. Click.

 

[mastercole]

I don't know: Check out Senator Joe McCarthy, The Hollywood Blacklist, Gulf of Tonkin resolution and lets not forget all the WMDs we found in Iraq.

None of the Hollywood Blacklisted, Gulf of Tonkin targets, or WMDs recipients ever came forward and admitted they were terrorist, unlike the variety of people who are the subjects of this post, and those who were the subjects of the proceedings of the Congressional Hearing that I posted.

 

[Tez3]

Threatening you? wow. Well............ thank goodness for the ignore feature. Click.

Ah poor Obelix, the last resort of the chronically mistaken, 'righteous indigation' lol.

 

[The Last Legionary]

:s389:
Since we are in the realm of legality, I will express my opinion here. As shown in established case law, this expression of my opinion is protected by the US Constitution. I am being very careful in my wording here, so as to remain within that.

Mastercole, you are an :s94:
puunui, you are also an :s94:

Calling someone an "*** hole" has been clearly shown to be free speech, and the expression of an opinion. It's therefore not legally actionable.

I watched Penn & Teller too.

:s414:

As to the bull **** being drug up, who the **** cares? It's old news, if news at all. My contacts in the US Military who actually have clearances to look at this agree with my opinion as expressed above. The only reason to bring this up is to troll the site and cause headaches for the staff, both being against the sites rules. But *** holes are above the rules right? :bird:

How about actually contributing something positive and useful for a change?

ok, go put me on ignore now. Stick your fingers in your ear and go "LALALALALA".

But first hit the RTM button so a mod can give me my points.
Then hit the "Rep Ding" I know you're gonna do.
Then take that same finger and hit that RTM button. That's a good troll.
:s397:

 

[puunui]

Since we are in the realm of legality, I will express my opinion here. As shown in established case law, this expression of my opinion is protected by the US Constitution.

Actually, your expression of opinion is not protected by the US Constitution in this particular case. In order to be protected, there must be some sort of "state action" to invoke the Constitution and the First Amendment. There is no state action here. That's why for example, catholic schools can have bible study classes but a public school cannot.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

:s389:
Since we are in the realm of legality, I will express my opinion here. As shown in established case law, this expression of my opinion is protected by the US Constitution. I am being very careful in my wording here, so as to remain within that.

Mastercole, you are an :s94:
puunui, you are also an :s94:

Calling someone an "*** hole" has been clearly shown to be free speech, and the expression of an opinion. It's therefore not legally actionable.

I watched Penn & Teller too.

:s414:

As to the bull **** being drug up, who the **** cares? It's old news, if news at all. My contacts in the US Military who actually have clearances to look at this agree with my opinion as expressed above. The only reason to bring this up is to troll the site and cause headaches for the staff, both being against the sites rules. But *** holes are above the rules right? :bird:

How about actually contributing something positive and useful for a change?

ok, go put me on ignore now. Stick your fingers in your ear and go "LALALALALA".

But first hit the RTM button so a mod can give me my points.
Then hit the "Rep Ding" I know you're gonna do.
Then take that same finger and hit that RTM button. That's a good troll.
:s397:

I couldnt agree more. Especially the part about statler and waldorf

 

[Tez3]

I couldnt agree more. Especially the part about statler and waldorf

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

 

[puunui]

Then hit the "Rep Ding" I know you're gonna do.

What is "Rep Ding"?

 

[puunui]

As to the bull **** being drug up, who the **** cares?

In a sense I agree with you. Who cares about General Choi and the ITF? For all intents and purposes, the ITF died when General Choi passed away. The organization itself continues to fracture and split into many pieces. I would be surprised if any of the organizations calling themselves the ITF is actually experiencing a growth in membership and if they are, it is tiny growth compared to the Kukkiwon and the WTF. So in that sense, you are right. Who cares?

How about actually contributing something positive and useful for a change?

Funny but judging by how many thank yous I have gotten over the years, in person, on the phone, in email, I would say that we are contributing many things that are positive and useful. Generally, it comes from those who are most interested in kukki taekwondo, but there are others as well. As for your opinion of mastercole and I, you and everyone else are certainly entitled to it, just so long as you and others realize that neither mastercole and I aren't really affected by those opinions. We don't care what you think of us. What we do care about is helping those who need and want our help. That is what is important, not the "opinions" of hecklers sitting in the cheap seats.

 

[Twin Fist]

i cant rep you again, but i can re-post this with a big helping of QUOTED FOR MOTHER****ING TRUTH

I swear if you and your side kick spent as much time training as you do trying to dis-credit anything non kukkiwon you could amaze yourselves at what you could achieve. Its really becoming quite tedious. You two could turn a thread about kermit the frog into a thread about the advantages of kukkiwon certification. I used to at least believe your sidekick was quite knowledgable about all things martial arts, but after reading the thread in the general section where chris parker completely dismantled him, Ive realised he is just full of big words and half truths twisted into what he calls facts, and as soon as he comes up against someone who knows what they're talking about, he very quickly gets shown up. You only make yourself seem silly by constantly siding with him. Although it is entertaining to read it all

 

[Twin Fist]

you know what, if i was looking to get deeper into TKD, the simple fact that you and "master" cole are in the WTF would be enough to keep me out.


wheaton's Law

look it up

In a sense I agree with you. Who cares about General Choi and the ITF? For all intents and purposes, the ITF died when General Choi passed away. The organization itself continues to fracture and split into many pieces. I would be surprised if any of the organizations calling themselves the ITF is actually experiencing a growth in membership and if they are, it is tiny growth compared to the Kukkiwon and the WTF. So in that sense, you are right. Who cares?




Funny but judging by how many thank yous I have gotten over the years, in person, on the phone, in email, I would say that we are contributing many things that are positive and useful. Generally, it comes from those who are most interested in kukki taekwondo, but there are others as well. As for your opinion of mastercole and I, you and everyone else are certainly entitled to it, just so long as you and others realize that neither mastercole and I aren't really affected by those opinions. We don't care what you think of us. What we do care about is helping those who need and want our help. That is what is important, not the "opinions" of hecklers sitting in the cheap seats.

 

[Tez3]

i cant rep you again, but i can re-post this with a big helping of QUOTED FOR MOTHER****ING TRUTH

Amen brother! Totally and absolutely agree.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

you know what, if i was looking to get deeper into TKD, the simple fact that you and "master" cole are in the WTF would be enough to keep me out.


wheaton's Law

look it up

You're right. I have some friends who train in kukkiwon tkd , and they represent their organisation well. They recognise both the positves and negatives of the kukkiwon and are open minded toward other forms of tkd. People who walk around with blinkers on, making broad generalisations and trolling around on the internet with clear set agendas do absolutely nothing for the credibility of their org. The constant remarks of "once you are a higher dan you will understand" and "one day you will come around to our way of thinking" are both egotistical and shallow. The funny thing is that when I relay their thoughts and opinions to my seniors (who are higher ranked than either of them), they scoff at their dribblings, so it would appear not all "higher dans" eventually come around to their way of thinking.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

With respect intended, I've been following this thread with some concern. First, concern for the board itself. It isn't fair to Bob Hubbard to put this board in a possibly compromised position simply to troll for your organization. Secondly, it is in rather poor taste to make your organization look good by attempting to put any other organization down. The ITF has many fine and honorable members of high skill and experience. Some on this very board. It is an insult to them and a slap in their face. Thirdly, the ITF may or may not have the growth of the KKW, but perhaps this is due to higher standards. Both of you have, by your own admission, given out over a thousand KKW certificates to people that weren't qualified, weren't tested and told you upfront they had no desire to learn the KKW TKD curriculum. And again, by your own admissions, your two aren't the only KKW instructors handing out the certs for wall candy. Fourthly, I'm sure you've been 'thanked' many times, but giving out certs to unqualified people will do that for you. And 'thanking' each other all the time here on the board tends to run up your count. I wouldn't hang my hat on either. Fifthly, discounting someones opinion because they are 'only' a 'low' Dan is not only uncool, it shows a high level of conceit. I've seen a lot of solid, valued input from multiple members here that aren't 'high' Dans or 'any' Dans. It isn't about the color of the cloth or how many stripes are on it, it is about what they can and do offer.

No disrespect intended towards either of you two (puunui & mastercole) but in just the last week you've been taken to task in multiple threads by multiple members. Since you two are the common factor, maybe they aren't the ones that are wrong. Maybe you two need to take a good hard look at yourselves and how you post.

Then again, Bob...maybe it's time for one of your 'hero or zero' polls :uhyeah:

 

[Makalakumu]

North Korean Taekwondo trained Al Qaeda. This sounds like a Bullshido South Park Movie in the making. :mst: