Italiano Escrima?

Discussion in 'Filipino Martial Arts - General' started by Marvin, Oct 25, 2005.

  1. Marvin

    Marvin Black Belt

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    Met a guy from the P.I. that says he trains in Italiano Escrima. Says it's single stick/single knife. Anyone ever hear of it?
     
  2. Rich Parsons

    Rich Parsons A Student of Martial Arts

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    Nope, but would be interested in larning more about it. Could we track him down and ply him with the drink of his choice? and then ask him more questions?
     
  3. arnisador

    arnisador Sr. Grandmaster

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    Could he mean Italian (Western) fencing? Escrime is French for fencing, which is usually from the French or Italian tradition (scherma italiano).
     
  4. buguhan

    buguhan White Belt

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    Maybe he ment Nova Scrimia!? http://www.novascrimia.com/eng/index.html

    That`s an Italian historical martial art, they`re fencing with Sticks, Sabres and Daggers.
    Theire videos do look like Largo Mano, Espada y Daga and other FMA technics.

    Or does a filipino family have the name Italiano?!
     
  5. Marvin

    Marvin Black Belt

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    That is the plan!!:ultracool
    And on a seperate but similar note, over the weekend I met a gentleman who is here visiting his daughter, he is a police officer in China and he showed us some cool chin-na and pressure point stuff. (We were already full of our drinks of choice :boing2:. Rich, ask Ian about it if he comes on Sunday)
    I am trying to get them both to come to the club.
     
  6. bart

    bart Brown Belt

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    I wouldn't be surprised if there was an actual italian connection. Although the hype mostly focuses around the dominion of Spain in the origins of eskrima. The word Arnis is an exact match for a 16th century italian word for "breastplate". Before the late 19th century Italy was a collection of small states and not a cohesive "nation" like today. The italians were the foremost traders and adventurers of the late renaissance and many of italians were soldiers of fortune and explorers. Amerigo Vespucci, Marco Polo, and Christopher Columbus were all Italians. Spain was also a country of many ethnicities and factions. They relied heavily on foreign soldiers and mercenaries to do a lot of the administration of their empire which at the time of the conquest of the Philippines still was newly won. Also, eskrima was commonly referred to as "fraile" and many of the friars that worked in the Philippines were born in places that actually now are counted as parts of Italy. One of the most well known italians involved in the history of eskrima is Antonio Pigafetta who journaled the voyage of Magellan. I've been amazed sometimes at how the language and It would be interesting to get some information about the Italiano Eskrima. I've done some research on the subject before which I'll put in my next post. It's mostly about the etymology of the language. But I think it at least shows there may be a solid link.
     
  7. bart

    bart Brown Belt

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    This is an excerpt from an email between myself and my teacher about some of the roots of Eskrima words. It has to do with Italian.



    Just another example of that italian thing, GM Carin's
    BOSYONARIO seemingly comes from the word BOSYO with
    the combination of BOSYO and NARIO coming together to
    mean "the practice of BOSYO". BOSYO like other
    transliterated words comes from VOCIO which is not a
    Spanish word but an Italian word indicating "a yell
    heard over other sounds". Below is a link to an online
    Italian dictionary.

    http://www.oxfordparavia.it/lemmaIta31653

    Just like Cebuano, Tagalog, and English even, Italian
    has changed over the past century. Sometimes the words
    used back then are not used anymore. So when you look
    up words you have to seek an equivalent to an
    "Unabridged" dictionary. It will include now "archaic"
    words and their meanings. Anyway, I thought you might
    get a kick out of that. You might get a nice kick out
    of this one too:

    http://www.oxfordparavia.it/lemmaIta2412



    Another good example is ESTOKADA. This word has been
    claimed to come from the Spanish word TOCAR. But that
    word doesn't conjugate to estocada. In its closest
    form it comes as ESTOQUE. However in Italian we have
    STOCCATA which means "to thrust". A Filipino and a
    Spaniard would prefix this word with a quiet E thus
    making it ESTOCCATA. Philippine languages being
    influenced greatly by Spanish would have substituted
    the ATA at the end with an ADA out of habit,
    especially if they believed the word to be Spanish.
    Therefore if you Filipinize the word, the original
    STOCCATA becomes ESTOKADA quite naturally.

    http://www.oxfordparavia.it/lemmaIta28367


    In Italian "sch" is pronounced "k" so words like
    SCHERMA are pronounced SKERMA. The Cebuano "e" is
    pronounced like the Cebuano "i". It's not a long
    stretch to make the Filipinized "ESKIRMA" especially
    with the Spanish word "ESGRIMA" being around.
    Linguistically transposition of letters is just as
    common an orthography over time than substitution. It
    makes just as much sense linguistically that ESKIRMA
    becomes ESKRIMA as ESGRIMA becomes ESKRIMA.

    Another word is PUNTA. In Spanish it means "END", in
    particular the heavy end of something. In Italian it
    means "POINTED TIP" referring to that on a knife or
    sword.

    I've attached a map of Spain's power in Europe during
    the late 1600's. It stayed that way for most of the
    1700's as well.


    [​IMG]
     
  8. Marvin

    Marvin Black Belt

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    Good stuff Bart, thanks!
     
  9. arnisador

    arnisador Sr. Grandmaster

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    Yes, very interesting. I thought of arnis as in Spanish arnes "(battle) harness" (I think).
     
  10. Marvin

    Marvin Black Belt

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    He is going to come to class next Sunday, so I will let you all know.
     
  11. Marvin

    Marvin Black Belt

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    Talked to the gentleman again, he is not sure if he wants to show his style. He doens't want anyone to steal his stuff :rolleyes: .
    So we will see.
     
  12. Rocky

    Rocky Yellow Belt

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    WoW I haven't heard of any doing Italian in years, for those of you in the Buffalo area back in the late 80's you should remember that I use to teah bits and peaces of Italiano. I haven't ssen anyone doing much of it in years. the version I was tought by Guru Jenkins back in the 1980 was a liner long range stick and dagger with fencinf style foot work. Closing usually comes under the cover of high over head whitik types of attacking followed by very direct straight over hand dager attacks. It is a ver in and out type of art, I get the feeling it was an ansewer to the European saber arts, just my opinion. The foot work was definately barrowed from European fencing.


    I remember seeing bits and peaces taught buy Guro Inosanto years and years ago.

    Rocky
     
  13. Rich Parsons

    Rich Parsons A Student of Martial Arts

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    Good Point.

    Ask him if not a demo, then maybe a sparring match?
     
  14. Marvin

    Marvin Black Belt

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    Rocky, I think I saw Mr. Inosanto show it a a seminar now that you mention it...
     
  15. Marvin

    Marvin Black Belt

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    Maybe. I'll ask him.
     

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