Discussion in 'Philosophy and Spirituality in the Arts' started by shesulsa, May 23, 2006.
Yes. He was a Hebrew man who other men called "Rabbi." Q.E.D.
I also see nothing in His "taking a wife" that would take anything away from his "revealed, divine nature," and, frankly,don't see how anyone else could.
I believe in God. I respect Christianity. I have a deep and abiding love for the teachings of the rabbi, Yeshua. I'm not interested in discrediting God or Christianiity.
I don't respect a great deal of Christian dogma, however.
Or the dogmatic, for that matter.
I have no bitterness against God or Christianity. I'm not attacking God or the Bible-except the execrable King James' version, and even that I have said was a fine piece of prose.
No, I didn't want to be an Episcopal priest-a profession that has a certain protection in my family trust, a protection I had no need of.
I wound up being another sort of priest anyway, though-what can you do? :lfao:
In terms of this discussion, I've already said that the Bible is full of beauty and truth-in addition to what are, from my perspective- rather obvious errors and mistranslations-and mine is a perspective that's shaped by a lifetime of scholarship.
I'm reminded, though, of something my father frequently said: This Bible has 1836 pages, and you can tear them all out but this one, and you'll be fine.
As for saying things that "create controversy," or stir the pot, isn't that precisely how so much of Yeshua's speech was?
Take that page my dad talked about, for instance:
Heresy. Next you'll tell us that Christmas was a pagan holy day. Or, worse... that Easter wasn't a xtian holiday!
I just think that Jesus being God, he would have no reason to marry. I think it would be an example and distraction He would not want.
In the pejorative sense it is usually used, I would agree. But the doctrines found in the Bible would be correct to use.
I am glad you are not bitter. But I am sure you understand I do not agree with your use of the word execrable to describe the King James Bible.
Yes, much of what Jesus said created controversy. But I was saying I thought you were intentionally trying to create controversy for your own pleasure. Jesus stated truth, which the Jews did not accept, and that was what created controversy over what he said.
If you weren't intentionally trying to create controversy, for instance using the word execrable to describe the King James Bible, so be it.
What you quoted from the Bible (apparently from the King James?), is indeed a principle worthy to live by. I take the meaning of your father. But personally I would never want to in any way confuse someone into thinking the rest of the Bible was not important, and did not have words from God to live by. Just me of course.
I am just curious, if you don't mind telling me, what Bible version did your father and grandfather use to read and teach from?
EDIT: I hope nothing I have said or asked will be taken by you as confrontational. As I mentioned, I have a lot of respect for you learning and knowledge. I just don't happen to agree with a lot of what you say about the Bible (King James Version). Obviously, you feel the same about my views, as do others in this thread. I can accept that.
Jesus the hippie, Buddha the fatty, and that Mohamad who likes little girls are all overrated because they don`t know how to party. With Valkyries. Pass the mead!
Where can I sign up? She seems like my kind of Goddess.
You just need to be brave and live life to its fullest. You know, fight, drink, feast and enjoy the embrace of a woman. Killing a giant or two won`t hurt either. Then when you die a Valkyrie will ride her flying horse to pick you up and carry you to Vallhalla. Where there is fighting all day and feast all night with the valkyries serving mead.
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Excellent. I'm glad you understand that I don't see any ideas or memes as being above criticism. I don't approach this subject from privilege or a sense of entitlement. When the Ayatollah Khomeini issued the fatwa against Salman Rushdie, I went out and bought The Satanic Verses in support of free speech. That's where I'm coming from. I want the spell broken that makes discussions about religion so difficult to have. Isn't this something you should expect from everyone?
That's not what I ment about YOU. Have a good day
"Distraction?" How can One who is omniscient, omnipresent and omniprescient be.......distracted? :lfao:
"Exapmple?" How is it that One who sent Man forth to "be fruitful, and multiply," could be setting an example that They did not want by......doing so?
Jesus being Man had ample reason to marry.
Sabbath day: Saturday or Sunday?
Salvation: Assured or not?
Without resorting to the Merriam Webster English Language Technical Manual (that's engineerspeak for "dictionary" :lfao: ) hat word means "very bad." There simply are better translations. It simply is "very bad," prose quality notwithstanding.....
In keeping with the 68 degree rule, I have stated truth and fact, which you do not accept-and that's created controversy.....
Nah. It's a small thing, what onbe person or another thinks of the Bible, after all......
A funny story:
The Jehovah's Witnesses had my family marked for conversion.They really did.
Weekend after weekend, various members would show up on our doorstep, and, weekend after weekend, Dad would take up his Bible, and demonstrate, verse by verse, why he thought they were theologically F.O.S.
One day, he came from the door, laughing, and handed me the Bible, saying, Son, they're here for you, now... and when I went to the door, there were three really lovely sisters on the porch!
The Bible he handed me was, of course, the King James-in the years to follow, I'd see numerous translations, and I have to say (again!) that while quite a few were more accurate, none was equal to the King James for language and poetry-another reiteration of the difference between fact and truth.
Distraction and example to those of us on earth, in the sense that it would distract us away from His reason for coming to earth. I think it also helped helped set Him apart as not the being same as the rest of us. You could just as easily say being Man he had ample reason to sin. But in fact the Bible tells us he did not.
Sabbath day – the seventh day of the week. Sunday is the day chosen by Christians to meet and worship; it does come every seven days. Considering your dislike of dogma, would you like to defend the likelihood that with all the chaos in calendars, and dark ages peasant/serf work requirements, we even know for sure if we are still on the same schedule as the Jews of biblical times? Even so, worshiping on Sunday is worshiping every seven days.
John 10:28-29 and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.
1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
Or wretched … neither definition I believe, accurately describes the King James Bible. I don't believe there are better translations.
But perhaps you could share some English translations that you think are more correct?
LOL First of all, your 68 degree rule describes a fact with two different perceptions of reality. You need to define your “truth” it you want to say that you have stated truth and fact which I don’t accept. I or anyone else can as easily say that to you about my/our own beliefs. But in fact, we, as you, would be using your rule to simply mask what is going on; experiencing two different perceptions of a fact, not two different truths.
I wouldn't say belief in a Bible that was not accurate is a small thing. I think Bibles that are not in fact God's inspired words, can cause doubt and lead people astray, and perhaps keep them from being saved.
Interesting story on the Jehovah's Witnesses. Did you in fact talk to them and show them how you thought they were misguided? Would you still think them misguided, or do you think your father was? Where do you think your father and grandfather are now? Where do you think you will be when you die? Did you at any time sincerely accept Jesus into your heart and ask God to save you?
Again I would appreciate you listing some of the “quite a few” English translations that you say are more accurate. I don’t think that is a correct statement, but can’t properly evaluate it without knowing what translations you are referring to.
He didn't need to be unmarried to be set apart, and His being married would be no more distracting than his wearing sandals, or having a sword, or having tools-all things that are likely, but not mentioned in the Bible.
And some would say that, at the time, His speaking to the woman at the well might be viewed as "sin," in the strictly Hebraic definition of the word, as would His overturning the moneylender's tables at the Temple, and beating them.
Saturday is the seventh day of the week. Not to be "dogmatic" or anything, but that's why Jews still use it as the Sabbath, and it was the day that Jesus kept: the "Last Supper," Holy Communion, was, in fact, a Passover Seder..... No matter.
See then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off" Rom. 11:22
I never said there was a better English translation.
No, two different truths: one person is sweating, and the other has goose bumps.
One is "hot."
One is "cold."
Truth is perception.The temperature is 68 degrees.
Two truths, one fact.
I believe that none of them are, in fact, God's inspired words.
"Inspired words." Sure. "Inspired by God?" Maybe. Does it matter?
Nope. Look again at Luke 10:25-37, the Good Samaritan story. Answer these questions: What was a Samaritan? Can a man never have heard of Jesus and be assured of salvation? What does this story mean?
Even worse: I used scripture to talk them right out of their panties!
I mean, they were "there for me," right? :lfao:
Not too much later on, I used the same strategy on Baptists, Methodists, Presbyterians, a Mennonite (SCORE!), Catholics and more Catholics....never did get anywhere near a Mormon girl to try it.....a Maronite Christian from Lebanon, though....etc., etc., etc.....
My father had, as you do, the strength of his belief. In the end, that's not a small thing, and all I think that matters.
Wherever they believed they deserved to be.
Precisely where I believe I deserve to be.
For most of my childhood, with death mere rattly breaths away, every day....
Quite a few translations. Not English-still interested?123
Separate names with a comma.