Is knowing one style enough?

[MJS]

7sm-

I can only speak for myself here. Of course, aspects of the fight game, such as punching, kicking, clinching, and grappling, are included in most styles. However, and I can only speak for myself here, there are certain things that I wanted to expand on, that my base art was not able to do. Therefore, I found it necessary to crosstrain. Example- I train in Kenpo as my base. There are aspects of grappling covered, but not to the length that I wanted to go. I then started to CT in BJJ. The same for weapons. I CT in Modern Arnis to better address that.

Now, is it necessary?? Nope. Its just something that I wanted to do. Can someone be a great fighter if they dont CT? Yes they can. I guess you can say that I just wanted to take it to that next level.

Mike

 

[7starmantis]

Thats cool, I can deffinitely respect that. In all honesty, my JKD has actually added to my kung fu I believe and has made me a different fighter from most of my kung fu brothers and sisters. Of course they all have different backgrounds as well.

7sm

 

[kenpo tiger]

I'm really getting curious as to why the prevailing idea is that one system or art cannot be enough. Why is it we can't believe that in one art or system the principles can apply to any situation? Why can't your current system's principles still apply from standup fighting to ground fighting?

Good point, 7star. My sifu tells us that if the technique doesn't work as written, we know enough to graft pieces of techniques together to adapt to the situation -- and it's true. We are taught to practice getting our techniques off in sparring and not just going at it, as was the case in my first two schools.


I'm not trying to say I know it all, but I have seen a 60 year old man who has studied nothing but taiji his whole life throw a 225 pound 22 year old MAist who is competing in full contact fighting and winning.

That's probably because he's a smarter fighter. This also applies to those of us on the 'distaff' side. I'm 5'3" and don't weight much (tmi!), but I can compete against a man that size and do all the time. Sometimes I do get my butt kicked, but I learn from it and it doesn't happen again.

I've seen fighters come in to our school who have been training in many different systems, sometimes with multiple black belts. They all take a class and then want to fight my sifu. Rarely does he even give them the time of day, but sometimes he lets them do a little fighting with him. I've never seen one spend more than a few seconds with him before either tapping out or lying on their back.

Why is it that guys always need to fight the biggest, toughest, strongest, most knowledgeable... they're crazy to even think they can take your sifu with their lower level of knowledge - I don't care how many black belts they have. There should be some respect for his rank and knowledge.


Ok, I'll stop babbling, I'm just interested to see why we believe we must learn so many different system in order to be a really good fighter. Thoughts?

Re: Gary's comment that his son competes in tkd. My niece does also, and travels to Texas and Arkansas regularly to train with a master for the USA team in her tkd federation. She, too, has many first place awards - most recently as national sparring champion in her age division (16) - but that's what her master asks of his black belts and the emphasis on their training is all about competing. Could she do as well against us kenpo stylists? I haven't the vaguest idea. TKD is all she knows, since age 6. She has always wanted to compete because she's an athlete and it's her nature to be competitive. I think it comes back to what you want to get out of your art, and if you're content with what you learn for your purposes.

And you guys don't babble. A stream of consciousness post can be helpful! KT

 

[mj-hi-yah]

I can only speak for myself here. Of course, aspects of the fight game, such as punching, kicking, clinching, and grappling, are included in most styles. However, and I can only speak for myself here, there are certain things that I wanted to expand on, that my base art was not able to do. Therefore, I found it necessary to crosstrain. Example- I train in Kenpo as my base. There are aspects of grappling covered, but not to the length that I wanted to go. I then started to CT in BJJ. The same for weapons. I CT in Modern Arnis to better address that.

Now, is it necessary?? Nope. Its just something that I wanted to do. Can someone be a great fighter if they dont CT? Yes they can. I guess you can say that I just wanted to take it to that next level.

Mike

Hi Mike,

I agree with you that cross training could be valuable. Of all the styles I have knowledge of; I would love to learn BJJ. I have some tapes from that style and it appears to be very practical. I think it would compliment my Kenpo training really well. I've spoken to some of my Kenpo friends about grappling and it is supposed to be present in Kenpo as you progress (I haven't seen much yet), but as a woman I think there are defenses we should learn much sooner. Men attack women to dominate them, and if rape is their goal, the object is to go to the ground. Hopefully, with awareness the bad guy never gets that close, but we should be prepared for that "what If".

Also, I love it when people come into our school with different experiences and backgrounds. I always learn something from them because of their different perspectives. It is interesting to see how their various experiences play out in sparring. You can see the influence of the styles they've studied and with each one it makes for a different fight. On the street you may likely meet attackers with training in different systems. It's good to see what you might be up against.

I do agree with a lot of the people who posted here saying that the cross training should begin after you have a handle on what you are learning in your first system though.

Respectfully,

MJ :asian:

 

[Zujitsuka]

Good day folks. I just wanted to throw my 2 cents onto the table...

I humbly submit, that it is not WHAT you train in, but HOW you train. Like Matt Thornton of Straight Blast Gym International says, "You have to train with aliveness - not prearranged patterns with a cooperating partner."

Here is a good primer on his concepts and training methodology:

http://w3.blackbeltmag.com/featurecontent/view.asp?article=222

 

[Ceicei]

I agree with you that cross training could be valuable.

I think it would compliment my Kenpo training really well. I've spoken to some of my Kenpo friends about grappling and it is supposed to be present in Kenpo as you progress (I haven't seen much yet), but as a woman I think there are defenses we should learn much sooner. Men attack women to dominate them, and if rape is their goal, the object is to go to the ground. Hopefully, with awareness the bad guy never gets that close, but we should be prepared for that "what If".

I, too, didn't see much of grappling in Kenpo at first. I decided to cross-train with Judo and funny, now I see a lot of Judo moves in Kenpo. I guess if you aren't familiar, you just don't "see" them. The higher techniques show more of grappling. I am glad I am cross training. It gives me a fresh perspective with my main martial art, Kenpo, and gives me more choices of what I can do in self defense. The two styles graft together really well for me.

- Ceicei

 

[mj-hi-yah]

I, too, didn't see much of grappling in Kenpo at first. I decided to cross-train with Judo and funny, now I see a lot of Judo moves in Kenpo. I guess if you aren't familiar, you just don't "see" them. The higher techniques show more of grappling. I am glad I am cross training. It gives me a fresh perspective with my main martial art, Kenpo, and gives me more choices of what I can do in self defense. The two styles graft together really well for me.

- Ceicei

That is interesting about the Judo moves. I think there are a lot of influences in Kenpo from other arts. Do you find that it helps you fine tune your Kenpo? It's :ultracool that you can fit both in. At some point I'd really like to supplement a bit. I don't know what your rank is, but at what point in Kenpo did you see the grappling?
I just have one question for you or anyone else who cross trains...how the heck's everyone paying for all these lessons? :idunno: You really do have to love :inlove: it!!!

Thanks Ceicei!

 

[arnisador]

The instructor I study with in town believes in cross-training strongly enough that he added BJJ to his JKD and is now a BJJ black belt after many years of training. His classes are all 1st half JKD, 2nd half BJJ--built-in cross-training.

So, that's how I pay for both! Of course, I added these arts to add to my Modern Arnis, which is the real cross-training for me.

 

[Gary Crawford]

That's great!You are lucky to have an instructor so versitile.Which JKD organisation are ya'll with?

 

[Ceicei]

That is interesting about the Judo moves. I think there are a lot of influences in Kenpo from other arts. Do you find that it helps you fine tune your Kenpo? It's :ultracool that you can fit both in. At some point I'd really like to supplement a bit. I don't know what your rank is, but at what point in Kenpo did you see the grappling?

Yes, there is a lot of influence of other arts into Kenpo. My understanding was Mr. Ed Parker was also a student of boxing and judo/jujutsu. That would explain why the moves are found in kenpo. I started noticing the grappling in the techniques after I had started cross training. Go figure...:idunno: In fact, having learned some judo moves helped me to execute my kenpo techniques better, so I'm really happy about that!!! :uhyeah:

I just have one question for you or anyone else who cross trains...how the heck's everyone paying for all these lessons? :idunno: You really do have to love :inlove: it!!!

Thanks Ceicei!

Ummm. I guess dedication for my style and saving up to pay for the training is a priority with me! I want to become a better kenpoist and if studying judo would lead me to that goal, then great! :boing1:

- Ceicei

 

[arnisador]

That's great!You are lucky to have an instructor so versitile.Which JKD organisation are ya'll with?

Paul Vunak's. Yes, especially because I live in such a small town, I consider myself to be very lucky!

 

[MJS]

Good day folks. I just wanted to throw my 2 cents onto the table...

I humbly submit, that it is not WHAT you train in, but HOW you train. Like Matt Thornton of Straight Blast Gym International says, "You have to train with aliveness - not prearranged patterns with a cooperating partner."

Here is a good primer on his concepts and training methodology:

http://w3.blackbeltmag.com/featurecontent/view.asp?article=222

Thanks for the article!!! :asian: My BJJ instructor is highly influenced by Thorton and has had the chance to train with him at seminars. I havent had the chance to train with him directly, but I have seen some tapes of him and was highly impressed. He brings up many good points, especially when it comes to the aliveness.

Mike

 

[MJS]

Hi Mike,[/color]

I agree with you that cross training could be valuable. Of all the styles I have knowledge of; I would love to learn BJJ. I have some tapes from that style and it appears to be very practical. I think it would compliment my Kenpo training really well. I've spoken to some of my Kenpo friends about grappling and it is supposed to be present in Kenpo as you progress (I haven't seen much yet), but as a woman I think there are defenses we should learn much sooner. Men attack women to dominate them, and if rape is their goal, the object is to go to the ground. Hopefully, with awareness the bad guy never gets that close, but we should be prepared for that "what If".

Also, I love it when people come into our school with different experiences and backgrounds. I always learn something from them because of their different perspectives. It is interesting to see how their various experiences play out in sparring. You can see the influence of the styles they've studied and with each one it makes for a different fight. On the street you may likely meet attackers with training in different systems. It's good to see what you might be up against.

I do agree with a lot of the people who posted here saying that the cross training should begin after you have a handle on what you are learning in your first system though.

Respectfully,

MJ :asian:

Hi MJ-- At one time, I didnt really see the grappling aspects of grappling in Kenpo. I had the chance to talk to Clyde (aka- Dark Kenpo Lord) and we discussed this at great length. I actually took a few Kenpo techs. and was able to apply them from the mounted position. He definately opened my eyes to that aspect. Like I said though, and again, I'm speaking only for me, I got a taste of BJJ a long time ago, fell in love with it, and began to train in it on somewhat of a regular basis. As I said in my last post, I wanted to take it to the next level.

I've said for a long time that certain aspects will be found in all arts. However, if someone wants to take it to that next level, then IMO, crosstraining is the only option.

I too think its great when school owners have outside instructors come in to give a seminar. Unfortunately, some schools owners do not approve of that, which is a shame because there are so many things to learn from other arts.

Mike

 

[kenpo tiger]

I too think its great when school owners have outside instructors come in to give a seminar. Unfortunately, some schools owners do not approve of that, which is a shame because there are so many things to learn from other arts.
Mike

MJS,
One of the best things at my former tkd school was the fact that my instructor knew a lot of people in other arts. As a result, we had seminars in BJJ, aikido, and other tkd masters from different federations. It's very cool to participate in those seminars and realize how much else there is to learn. I'll repeat myself here: wish I'd started MA when I was younger!!!! KT:samurai: