Is Karate a sport?

[Kung Fu Wang]

If you don't "kill" your training partner daily, you are training for "sport" no matter you may like it or not.

There is nothing wrong to play "sport" as long as you can have "fun".

- Sport can give you fun.
- Killing will put you in jail.

 

[Chris Parker]

I don't understand what just happened. Tez3, are you saying that definitions don't matter? Jesus Christ... don't tell Chris Parker. He'll totally lose his ****.

You do get the difference between accurate classification, and contextually dependent differing definitions to single terms, yeah? Additionally, I'd suggest (and Tez, correct this if I'm off base) that no, she's not saying definitions don't matter… rather that they can be dependent on the context as applied by the person using them, and the context in which they are being used. That said, the words still have clear definitions… you can't simply call anything a sport just because you like the word, for instance. But thanks for yet another passive-aggressive dig…

I'd also point out that a dictionary, despite it's common usages, is not really much more than a basic guide to a simplified range of definitions, rather than an exhaustive, or even definitive one… which can be seen easily when looking up the "definitions" of martial arts. The definition you get is a "lay persons" understanding… people who have a more expert understanding will see major issues with such descriptions… words such as sport are the same.

I call it making a subtle point. Which gets lost on people who don't understand nuance.

Then you need to work on being subtle, as there wasn't any subtlety in this… simply a snide dig at explanations of certain actions and methods within karate (the usage of what are commonly seen as blocks as joint locks and other applications instead), showing that you didn't understand it then, and don't now… and there was little nuance to this, or any other comment you've made.

If you don't "kill" your training partner daily, you are training for "sport" no matter you may like it or not.

There is nothing wrong to play "sport" as long as you can have "fun".

- Sport can give you fun.
- Killing will put you in jail.

I don't do sport. I haven't killed any training partners yet. There are many systems that don't kill, but aren't sports either… so no.

 

[Steve]

It was a joke, Chris.

If definitions matter, then certainly karate meets the definition of sport. This is a fact. Photonguy pointed it out and cited his source. It may not be an organized sport, but it would not be wrong to refer to it as sport.

Irene was basically saying, "dictionary, schmictionary."

 

[Tez3]

Additionally, I'd suggest (and Tez, correct this if I'm off base) that no, she's not saying definitions don't matter… rather that they can be dependent on the context as applied by the person using them, and the context in which they are being used. That said, the words still have clear definitions… you can't simply call anything a sport just because you like the word, for instance

Spot on Chris. I'd add I think that definitions can also depend on the qualifications of the person defining the 'thing'. I have a friend who is a nuclear scientist, her definitions are much more involved than I can even understand. A discussion that is going on at the moment here is about a nuclear reactor being built here, to us lay people nuclear is just 'nuclear' her definitions are much different, she doesn't even use the word nuclear! It can also depend on what country you are in, I'm sure if you look in an American dictionary and a British dictionary the word 'fanny' has very different ( and potentially embarrassing) meaning.

 

[Steve]

For Pete's sake. You guys flip flop so often. Its hard to keep up. So then photonguy is not wrong.

Okay. How about this? Is it fair to say that karate is sport even if it is not a sport?

 

[pgsmith]

For Pete's sake. You guys flip flop so often. Its hard to keep up. So then photonguy is not wrong.

Okay. How about this? Is it fair to say that karate is sport even if it is not a sport?

It isn't that people flip-flop, it's that many aren't very interested in attempting to pigeonhole anything with a certain definition. People tend to think of sports as contests with rules and referees. While many karate schools approach it in this manner, many others do not and would get insulted (Tez ) if you insinuated that they approached their karate this way.

This is why I stated earlier that attempting to assign a single definition to something such as karate is an exercise in futility.

 

[Flying Crane]

It is fair to say that some people engage in karate as a sport, and that others do not.

Karate can be a sport, or it can be definitely not a sport. It depends on how it is being done, who is doing it, and for what purpose. And also how the individual perceives his own practice.

If you say your karate is sport, ok there is not much room to argue with you. But if you say my karate is sport, you are dead wrong.

What more debate is needed for this?

 

[drop bear]

I don't do sport. I haven't killed any training partners yet. There are many systems that don't kill, bu

Probably hobby would be more technically correct.

But the idea that both are simulated is pretty on point.

 

[Steve]

It isn't that people flip-flop, it's that many aren't very interested in attempting to pigeonhole anything with a certain definition. People tend to think of sports as contests with rules and referees. While many karate schools approach it in this manner, many others do not and would get insulted (Tez ) if you insinuated that they approached their karate this way.

This is why I stated earlier that attempting to assign a single definition to something such as karate is an exercise in futility.

of course this entire thread is subjective.

That said, surely you must agree that according to the definition from the m-a dictionary shared by photonguy karate clearly meets the criteria of sport, even if it is not a sport with refs and rules. As I pointed out earlier, whether karate is "sport" is not subjective. It certainly meets that definition.

But whether it is A sport is subjective, and certainly depends upon how it is trained.

 

[pgsmith]

of course this entire thread is subjective.

Yep! Most of life is the same way.

That said, surely you must agree that according to the definition from the m-a dictionary shared by photonguy karate clearly meets the criteria of sport, even if it is not a sport with refs and rules. As I pointed out earlier, whether karate is "sport" is not subjective. It certainly meets that definition.

But whether it is A sport is subjective, and certainly depends upon how it is trained.

Sorry, he's still on my ignore list so I didn't know he contributed to this thread or see his definition. I definitely agree with you about how it is trained though.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Karate has tournament -> tournament is sport and has rules -> Karate uses sport format to "test" skill

Karate rules used in the US (back in the 70th) are:

- No facial contact below black belt level (you can kick the head but you can't punch the head).
- No drawing blood from the punch.
- Hammer fist won't give you any point.
- MT type roundhouse kick won't give you any point (this had been changed after 1974).
- No outside ring coaching allowed (some coach used to yield "kill, kill that SOB").
- ...

When your friends visited you, you threw them some Karate gloves and you all had "fun" in the local Karate tournament.

 

[Tez3]

Karate has tournament -> tournament is sport and has rules -> Karate uses sport format to "test" skill

However, as I said, 'karate' is a generic term for many different styles and sorts of martial art and many styles don't do tournaments or competitions so that statement is a huge generalisation and the conclusion isn't a true one.

 

[Steve]

Sorry, he's still on my ignore list so I didn't know he contributed to this thread or see his definition. I definitely agree with you about how it is trained though.

Ah, well, he said:

The Merriam-Webster dictionary defines sport as

1. A contest or game in which people do certain physical activities according to a specific set of rules and compete against each other.

2. Sports in general.

3. A physical activity (such as hunting, fishing, running, swimming, etc.) that is done for enjoyment.

So in particular according to the third definition all styles and all forms of karate are a sport as well as all the other styles of martial arts. You could say all martial arts are sports although from my own experience I would say they are so much more.

Emphasis is mine. If we consider this definition of sport, then all martial arts qualify. I think that the term has a negative connotation for some, as it has often been a term used to distinguish some martial arts from others. In particular, the term is used by some in a derisive way to imply that one art is somehow more dangerous or perhaps serious than another.

Dictionary.com defines sport as:
noun
1.an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.
2.a particular form of this, especially in the out of doors.
3.sports, (used with a singular verb) such athletic activities collectively:
Sports is important in my life.
4.diversion; recreation; pleasant pastime.

 

[Tez3]

This reminds me of a joke ( the old ones are the best) a hunter is out with his gun and comes across a nubile young lady in the wood, 'are you game' he asks her. 'I certainly am' she replied so he shot her.

 

[pgsmith]

Ah, well, he said:Emphasis is mine. If we consider this definition of sport, then all martial arts qualify. I think that the term has a negative connotation for some, as it has often been a term used to distinguish some martial arts from others. In particular, the term is used by some in a derisive way to imply that one art is somehow more dangerous or perhaps serious than another.

Dictionary.com defines sport as:
noun
1.an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.
2.a particular form of this, especially in the out of doors.
3.sports, (used with a singular verb) such athletic activities collectively:
Sports is important in my life.
4.diversion; recreation; pleasant pastime.

Ah, I see. Certainly by those particular definitions, then just about any physical activity can be labeled a sport. However, that is one of those things that irritates me a lot about lawyers. They are always trying to pin things down absolutely so there is no wiggle room. Most people recognize the fact that life wiggles.

 

[Steve]

Ah, I see. Certainly by those particular definitions, then just about any physical activity can be labeled a sport. However, that is one of those things that irritates me a lot about lawyers. They are always trying to pin things down absolutely so there is no wiggle room. Most people recognize the fact that life wiggles.

lets be clear. I'm perfectly open to alternative perspectives. I posted initially to point out that photonguy made a legit point.

And you make it sound like the sources of those definitions are obscure. I think they're pretty common definitions from dictionary.com and the Merriam webster.

If you use the term sport in a particular way, great. This does not meAn photonguy is wrong, just as you are not wrong. As you say, life wiggles.

I wish a few others were as reasonable as you.

 

[pgsmith]

lets be clear. I'm perfectly open to alternative perspectives. I posted initially to point out that photonguy made a legit point.

If you use the term sport in a particular way, great. This does not meAn photonguy is wrong, just as you are not wrong. As you say, life wiggles.

I wish a few others were as reasonable as you.

I'm not really reasonable, I'm just used to being not quite right! (yep, take that however you want)

 

[Flying Crane]

Karate has tournament -> tournament is sport and has rules -> Karate uses sport format to "test" skill

Karate rules used in the US (back in the 70th) are:

- No facial contact below black belt level (you can kick the head but you can't punch the head).
- No drawing blood from the punch.
- Hammer fist won't give you any point.
- MT type roundhouse kick won't give you any point (this had been changed after 1974).
- No outside ring coaching allowed (some coach used to yield "kill, kill that SOB").
- ...

When your friends visited you, you threw them some Karate gloves and you all had "fun" in the local Karate tournament.

No, I didn't.

 

[hoshin1600]

However, as I said, 'karate' is a generic term for many different styles and sorts of martial art and many styles don't do tournaments or competitions so that statement is a huge generalisation and the conclusion isn't a true one.

We can't even agree on what "karate" is, never mind if it is a sport.
To me karate is a very specific term and not a general term. I would admit that the general population might use it in a general way. Much like where I am from people will say "I need a bandaid I cut my finger" but it's actually a Johnson and Johnson Band-aid brand BANDAGE.
Bandaid has become a common vernacular word in the same way the word karate has.
But to use the "nuclear " example. ..karate for some, like myself is specifically used and pertains to an okinawan fighting art that had three classifications Naha, Tomari and Shuri. But most don't look at it from my nuclear, quantum mechanics kind of micro analysis way.