Is it appropriate to create a new martial art?

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by pesilat
In martial arts, they use it to describe the concept of extrapolation. When a punch comes at me, it is the glass being dropped. All of the options I have for dealing with that punch are the "pecahan." They're the fragments of my skill/ability that can be applied to dealing with that punch.

Mike

You just described what Hung Yi Syan used to say about Bagua.

 

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by RyuShiKan
That's not giving me your opinion, that's asking a question.
Would you like me to restate the question so you understand it better?

A weakness of a traditional karate system would be assuming that "your original system" is really covering all ranges. It most likely touches slightly on important ranges such as the ground, but does not go deep enough to be considered covering all ranges effectively.

What is considerd effective? That depends on who is talking and who is listening. But for me, it meant spending several years on the mat in a BJJ school learning to fight from my back. Knowing that its far from over and that taking me to the ground is not taking me out of my world!

I use Karate as an example, but as I stated all arts have weaknesses. But the Judo guys don't make false claims of being complete!

 

[pesilat]

Originally posted by RyuShiKan
You just described what Hung Yi Syan used to say about Bagua.

Once again we've proven that concepts and principles are universal and only their expression differs. "A rose by any other name ..."

Mike

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by akja
A weakness of a traditional karate system would be assuming that "your original system" is really covering all ranges. It most likely touches slightly on important ranges such as the ground, but does not go deep enough to be considered covering all ranges effectively.

This has been your core grip all along but you still have not given any specifics.
I can’t say for every “traditional” art but the one I study covers “all ranges” including ground.

Originally posted by akja
I use karate as an example, but as I stated all arts have weknesses.

No, that’s not really accurate. Arts don’t have weaknesses. Only teachers or students have weaknesses.

Originally posted by akja
But the Judo guys don't make false claims of being complete!

You obviously don’t know the same Judo guys as I do.

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by pesilat
Once again we've proven that concepts and principles are universal and only their expression differs. "A rose by any other name ..."

Mike

My teacher has stressed the point on us that all arts are one..........must be something to that.

 

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by RyuShiKan
My teacher has stressed the point on us that all arts are one.

Care to explain? It seems to contradict what tou preach.

 

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by RyuShiKan
This has been your core grip all along but you still have not given any specifics.
I can’t say for every “traditional” art but the one I study covers “all ranges” including ground.





No, that’s not really accurate. Arts don’t have weaknesses. Only teachers or students have weaknesses.



You obviously don’t know the same Judo guys as I do.

You can be very much right. But you don't give any detail on your art except you say it covers all ranges. Everybody thinks that. And you spend so much time trying to pick me apart because I believe that I teach better than I was taught. I try hard not to hold back.

I put the time in learning certain things that "make me" as a martial artist. Doesn't it make sense that I would base my teaching from my personal beliefs and not just what other people think I should do.

If I didn't teach from my heart, then I would be fake!

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by akja
It seems to contradict what tou preach.

Not at all. What I "preach" is that all "real" martial arts have basically the same motives and ideas for what they do and why the do it. To elaborate a bit, most use similar body mechanics that allow them to use the opponents strength against themselves.

Care to elaborate on that question I asked earlier or are we going to have another marathon post session where I have to ask you repeatedly..........

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by akja
You can be very much right. But you don't give any detail on your art except you say it covers all ranges.

All ranges means all ranges doesn't it............

 

[pesilat]

Originally posted by RyuShiKan
My teacher has stressed the point on us that all arts are one..........must be something to that.

That's pretty much what I believe.

Here's a summation of my personal belief on the subject:

There is a finite number of ways that the body can move, be moved, or be affected. The martial arts further reduce that number by limiting to methods of defense and attack.

Consequently, there is a pool of concepts and principles that all the martial arts draw from.

It's a big pool, but still finite.

What makes each system unique is what they choose to draw from the pool, the amount of various elements they choose to draw, and how they choose to approach and express it.

Mike

 

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by RyuShiKan


Care to elaborate on that question I asked earlier or are we going to have another marathon post session where I have to ask you repeatedly.......... [/B]

Do you want me to try and pick apart your art? I thought I gave a good example of a weakness.

Is it wrong to believe that most arts overstate there martial art as being complete? At least I've seen a lot of what the world has to offer to base my decision.

Yet what I believe I hear from the "majority" is that what I do can't be right.

Nothing in the last 10 years has happened that would make me want to explore multiple arts. I only need one art, thats enough.

 

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by RyuShiKan
All ranges means all ranges doesn't it............

I've told you so much more than you have told me!

I don't need to convert you! But if you want me to believe what your saying, the you should be the one doing some elaborating. I give many examples of what I do and what I believe and how what i believe effects what I do.

You on the other hand should read your posts. You don't give me any reason to believe that your art is anything more than a standard version of Karate.

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by pesilat
That's pretty much what I believe.

Here's a summation of my personal belief on the subject:

There is a finite number of ways that the body can move, be moved, or be affected. The martial arts further reduce that number by limiting to methods of defense and attack.

Consequently, there is a pool of concepts and principles that all the martial arts draw from.

It's a big pool, but still finite.

What makes each system unique is what they choose to draw from the pool, the amount of various elements they choose to draw, and how they choose to approach and express it.

Mike

Yup.... I agree.

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by akja
Do you want me to try and pick apart your art? I thought I gave a good example of a weakness.

Is it wrong to believe that most arts overstate there martial art as being complete? At least I've seen a lot of what the world has to offer to base my decision.

Yet what I believe I hear from the "majority" is that what I do can't be right.

Nothing in the last 10 years has happened that would make me want to explore multiple arts. I only need one art, thats enough.

Oh brother here we go.

Once again, what specifically do you think are the weaknesses of a “traditional” martial art?

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by akja

You on the other hand should read your posts. You don't give me any reason to believe that your art is anything more than a standard version of Karate.

One look at the mpegs on the URL I gave you several weeks ago would tell you I don't do a standard version of Karate.

 

[pesilat]

Originally posted by RyuShiKan
Oh brother here we go.

Once again, what specifically do you think are the weaknesses of a “traditional” martial art?

It might help if someone specifies a particular art. Otherwise it'll be pretty rough for him (or anyonoe) to answer that question meaningfully.

Mike

 

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by RyuShiKan
Oh brother here we go.

Once again, what specifically do you think are the weaknesses of a “traditional” martial art?

If your asking for specific techinques then I would have to have knowledge of all or many traditional arts.

You are avoiding telling me anything about your complete art!

Its not realistic to think that no art has weakness or one art is enough. Not in todays martial art world. Weaknesses as I stated are in all arts! Not just traditional arts. But the differances may differ from traditional vs. non-traditional.

If you don't tell me about your art, I can't help you find your weakness.

With all seriousness, you are entitled to your opinions. But you are playing a head game. Tell me about your art and I will try and use your art as an example. I think that is fair.

I did not look at the mpegs. That would be my fault. But I will look a them. I really only went to the page where you had your kata listed.

 

[pesilat]

Hey akja, what is your avatar? I keep looking at it trying to figure it out, but it's got me stumped.

Mike

 

[James Kovacich]

Its a monkey with a bamboo stick on his shoulder whereing a Gung-Fu type of uniform. It looks better when it is bigger but that was as big as I could get it loaded up.

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by pesilat
That's pretty much what I believe.

Here's a summation of my personal belief on the subject:

There is a finite number of ways that the body can move, be moved, or be affected. The martial arts further reduce that number by limiting to methods of defense and attack.

Consequently, there is a pool of concepts and principles that all the martial arts draw from.

It's a big pool, but still finite.

What makes each system unique is what they choose to draw from the pool, the amount of various elements they choose to draw, and how they choose to approach and express it.

Mike

Here is something that might be of interest.
A couple of weeks ago I was working out with a Sambo/Gracie JJ guy on Camp Zama. Yiliquan1 knows who I am talking about.
Anyway we were going over techniques and what we came to find was a lot of the chokes and other holds were similar if not the same to the art that I practice.
I should mention that I have never practiced Sambo.
Another interesting point was the guy I was working out with said that some of the holds I do would not be allowed in competion Sambo because there would be too much chance for injury. Different art, same pool.

Originally posted by akja
If your asking for specific techinques then I would have to have knowledge of all or many traditional arts.

Let’s start with Karate.

Originally posted by akja
Its not realistic to think that no art has weakness or one art is enough.

You can’t blame the art for your lack of discovery, but then if you don’t spend much time in an art it’s kind of hard to discover things.
Too many people today need to be “spoon fed” and don’t think or discover for themselves.

Originally posted by akja
Tell me about your art and I will try and use your art as an example. I think that is fair.

OK, “traditional” Karate. In your opinion what does it lack to "hack it" in the real world?