intructor backround check

[soccer50]

beginners, you guys have to watch out for "McDojos". these are schools that are in it for money, and ******** your training. when you join a gym, goto google.com or somehting and look up the instructors name. check their background to see if they are an accredited instructor, some ppl might not have backgrounds (but that doesnt disqualify them). being suckered into one of these gyms waste your time, money, and can seirously hurt you.

our head instructor was telling us about the other day, when he ran into one of his former students from last year. the guy had only a year of training and was running a school. we were like "wat the fuc*".

its really important to ask around and research about the instructor.

 

[Blindside]

Relying on the internet to somehow be a reliable source of info on any particular instructor is a joke. You are far more likely to run into a "fan" website constructed by a student of that school as you are some official lineagel.

Secondly, many McDojos are parts of chain franchise schools which do have legitimate certification through their own organization.

While I agree with your warning, your solution leaves something to be desired. Most beginners are probably going to have to use their insticts and take their chances.

Lamont

 

[soccer50]

although the internet is somewhat unreliable. ive looked up many instructors and found websites from blackbelt mag and all these MA sites. It wouldnt hurt to research. I say we should make an instructor database on martialtalk. wat u think>?

 

[WhiteTiger]

You must do your homework, many people that consider getting into the martial arts just walk into the closest location they can find and sign up for a 1 year contract. These are the fools which the McDojos thrive on. If that same person was spending $1000 on a new TV they would read all the reviews in Consumer Reports, look through all the ads for sales, and talk to all their friends about what they like / dislike, but when it comes to spending that same $1000 on MA instruction for a year they just don't spend the time to find out what they are buying.

 

[pknox]

White Tiger - excellent point.

If you are going to buy a TV, you expect it to last. At the very least, you should have the ability to keep it for a few years, and upgrade on your own when you want to, as opposed to having to throw it away after a year.

People should approach MA training the same way -- if you walk into a school, and can't imagine being there for more than a few months, don't sign up for a contract. You will just be disappointed later, when you're paying for something you're not using. Think if you can imagine yourself sticking around for a long time -- if you can, that's the place you need to be. Instinct is definitely part of it, but so is common sense -- if you're going in looking for the ability to move gracefully, and nobody at the school (especially those who have been there awhile) do so, what makes you think you will? You would be better served moving on. Part of the problem is that a newbie doesn't know what "correct movement" or "effective fighting" looks like, in most cases. That's why it's imperative not to sign a long term contract (say more than 3 mos) in the beginning. Once you have been practicing a while, you can decide if the place is for you. If you want to sign a contract then so as to save money in the long run, by all means do so.

And in a way, fora like MT serve a kind of "Consumer Reports" function for the arts. If someone isn't sure if something is correct, or is confused about something they've been told, this is an excellent place to ask.

 

[stickarts]

I have always relied on recommendations from reliable sources, watching some classes for myself, and asking the instructor questions such as who their teacher is and what their philosophy toward teaching is.

 

[tshadowchaser]

For years I was not listed on my parent schools list of instructors. This was between me and my instructor and we both had agred to not have me liste. BUT if anyone wanted to check on me I gladly gav them his address and or phone #
The internet is not always reliable and anyone can set up a dummy site to give the credentials and recommendations.

 

[Ground Dragon]

I don't come here often but this topic caught my eye.
Checking out the background of instructors, is imho, very important. But if possible, it should go even beyond the normal checking to see if they are legit and their credentials aren't made up. I'm sure most states have open records laws, I know Ky does. Research those for a criminal record. Old newspapers, which should be available at the library for free, are also good sources for finding out what past things an instructor was up to.
The local police of where I live, Lexington, Ky, have a website with a record of anyone who has been arrested on it. And the newspaper here has on online archive, but you do have to pay for downloads. And some people don't realize everything else that is an open record, property records, voter registration data etc.
I did just some minor looking of my own once on some different instructors here in town who I had heard things about, and lo and behold one of them had a very long list of offenses, including felonies and two assaults.
Not that you should automatically dismiss an instructor if you find something, but more information may help you make a better decision.

 

[soccer50]

DONT sign any contracts. buy shortterm membershp, and see how it is. if there are any questions then just post. it doesnt hurt to ask

 

[Ceicei]

What sort of sources do you use to do your checking? (just curious.) Newspapers at the library would be rather tedious. I am aware that some states have websites, but these websites maynot necessarily be all inclusive.

I hope you're not suggesting these "pay $5 for background checks on anyone" type of sites. They appear to be a rip-off.

- Ceicei

 

[Ground Dragon]

Originally posted by Ceicei
What sort of sources do you use to do your checking? (just curious.) Newspapers at the library would be rather tedious. I am aware that some states have websites, but these websites maynot necessarily be all inclusive.

I hope you're not suggesting these "pay $5 for background checks on anyone" type of sites. They appear to be a rip-off.

- Ceicei

Not at all. My local police dept has a website that contains everyone that has been picked up and booked, including their mugshots and what they were charged with, on the website. Our local newspaper has an online archive, but you do have to pay a fee to download the entire article, but I don't think it's much. It's also helpful if the name you are looking up is somehow unique and not something like 'John Smith' or whatever.
I'm also lucky that where I work has all of the open records databases as well as newspaper articles nicely compiled into a searchable website that I have browsed on breaks and downtime.

 

[Spud]

Also depends on what your concerns are. My school has specific rules for kids classes. Fore example there will be two adult instructors/trainees at the dojang anytime children are present.

 

[soccer50]

The instructors rapsheet is irrelevant to his ability to teach. Dont just think, because he has been arrested that he is not creditable. People make mistakes, they arent perfect. What i mean by background check is their teching integrity.

 

[D.Cobb]

Originally posted by soccer50
The instructors rapsheet is irrelevant to his ability to teach. Dont just think, because he has been arrested that he is not creditable. People make mistakes, they arent perfect. What i mean by background check is their teching integrity.

You would want to look at the time line involved. If the particular instructor gained his record for felonious assault, and other questionable antics, before he was a martial artist, but was clean for quite some time up til now, then you might give him the benefit of the doubt.

But if his record was fairly recent and he had been a black belt for a long time, then it would be obvious to me, that he had really missed the point.

Teaching ability, doesn't always equate with integrity. If I can't have both then I'm going somewhere else.

--Dave

:asian:

 

[hardheadjarhead]

This thread ties in, a little bit, with "Liars in the Martial Arts". There are disreputable types who lie about their credentials and open schools.

But as far as checking their accreditation, that doesn't necessarily mean anything. Accreditation can mean nothing. There are some bad schools out there affiliated with legitimate organizations. Some call them McDojos...I call them "Shake and Bake Schools." Sometimes the organization itself supports the watering down of the arts and the ripping off of the public...as long as they get a cut. This isn't always true...but we've seen it.

In this tech age anyone can make a certificate...web sites supporting his history...you name it. If a reporter for the N.Y. Times can lie for years about stories he wrote and passed off as true, an "instructor" can lie about his background. This type of joker is rare, though. Compulsive liars generally have chaotic lives. They can't run schools for long.

Regards,

Steve Scott

 

[soccer50]

Originally posted by hardheadjarhead
This thread ties in, a little bit, with "Liars in the Martial Arts". There are disreputable types who lie about their credentials and open schools.

But as far as checking their accreditation, that doesn't necessarily mean anything. Accreditation can mean nothing. There are some bad schools out there affiliated with legitimate organizations. Some call them McDojos...I call them "Shake and Bake Schools." Sometimes the organization itself supports the watering down of the arts and the ripping off of the public...as long as they get a cut. This isn't always true...but we've seen it.

In this tech age anyone can make a certificate...web sites supporting his history...you name it. If a reporter for the N.Y. Times can lie for years about stories he wrote and passed off as true, an "instructor" can lie about his background. This type of joker is rare, though. Compulsive liars generally have chaotic lives. They can't run schools for long.

Regards,

Steve Scott

wat u say is tru, which makes it hard to tell whether a dojo is a mcdojo or not.

 

[hardheadjarhead]

Yep.

But some people have different ideas as to what a McDojo is.

Regards,

Steve Scott

 

[Kempo Guy]

One of my teachers once told me:

"Be careful when choosing a teacher as you will take on this persons characteristics / behavior. If you chose to follow the wrong person it will hurt yourself and others..."

I agree that a persons 'rap sheet' or 'moral character' may be irrelevant as to the skill level and the teaching abilities of the individual. However, why would anyone choose to study under someone who is of poor character outside of the dojo?

BTW, some teachers may have poor characterisitics within the dojo by 'abusing' their students as well. I've seen this quite often in Japan (and in the US for that matter) where students are getting "beat" by the instructor, and the student brushes it off as part of training (discipline or what not). Anyway, this type of behavior is never acceptable and the student should leave the dojo if subject to it.

There are some bad schools out there affiliated with legitimate organizations. Some call them McDojos...I call them "Shake and Bake Schools." Sometimes the organization itself supports the watering down of the arts and the ripping off of the public...as long as they get a cut

It's hard to distinguish what a McDojo is (or is not). There are some pretty "traditional" dojo out there that outright lie about their lineage. And I wouldn't call them the run of the mill McDojo... as some of them claim to be Koryu Bugei (traditional/classical Japanese MA).

KG

 

[hardheadjarhead]

KG...good points.

Some traditional schools, or those that purport to be traditional, can be abusive in their treatment of students. So too can schools that call themselves progressive. I've seen, and experienced, verbal and physical abuse at the hands of extremely insecure instructors. I've seen instructors make their students do insanely dangerous things.

I once saw a while belt told to do a flying side kick over the backs of two kneeling people and break a board. One thing to note...HE'D NEVER BEEN TAUGHT THE TECHNIQUE. The instructor in question knew that, but made him do it anyway. He landed and snapped his leg in half right above the ankle. He had to have surgery to pin the bones back in place. I left the school not long after that. Years later I heard the same thing was done with another student...resulting in a compound fracture. This was a "traditional school."

My wife and I left that place within the year.

Regards,


Steve Scott