Intercepting Fist

[monkey]

The word clearly has a meaning of 'to stop on the way'-to interrupt the course of- Not in any 1 part of the definition did it ever state to pak-to thaibox-to grapple- to savate-to kali-to use the total of any other of. No part of the meaning did it have entry to trap-to grapple to do & do & do. It is clear- look in a dictionary.The art & title means to stop.When one goes from movement to movement to movement--you have yet to stop or intercept anything. Stop clearly means to prevent from doing-to cut off. If you use many diferrent arts to end it.Then you have not intercepted but merged many ways to an ends. Halting the 1 motion & ending it is Intercepting. If you move to me-I use my side kick to your knee, now you have trouble to continue & I need not proceed any more. A simple eye jab or eye guadge gives plenty to the interception.There was no kicking range-trapping range-grappling range.That alone predicates a system & ways to set stages or steps to get from 1 to the next to the next,there was no interception. In football, the ball is intercepted-that team has the control of the field & plays to be called.The intercepted missel does not block & trap & hold the other in coming missels. It takes it out. JunFan was his name & had some trapping--epie--boxing--tomtoy--Oongob--Tkd--kempo. Chinese kick boxing had lots of wing chun & even required the sil lum tao form.The art was evolving-to copy others who grapple-thai box-silat-you just become mirror images of them.There is no self exploration- There is no Scientific motion-There is no Simplicity in mimic arts-There is no 'No way as way'.You do other arts-jurus-long kahs-ect. that is a way. What part of no way sounds like 'go study all these arts & now enter with -then trap-maybe do sialt & go to'. Wrong-Wrong-Wrong. Yes I did study many arts. I know how they are used & how to stop them. Not to study them all & teach there history-uniform-ranks-salutes-bows.That is tradition & set way. Being formless, shapeless does not grant license to be gurus-pendekars-silver gloves savate. This means no art to cling to forms as forms tend to separate man.They started with a hypothesis & became law. We all punch & kick the same. Round line, curve line, straight line. We cannot punch an ethnic-color-system-country-land-history. JKD is simple-I can show you the gift, but you cannot ever have it or sell it.This is why so many do so many arts and call it mixed JKD. A rose bed with daisies, tulips & potatoes is no longer a rose bed. Same applies for JKD. You had to be there to understand the man-history-philosophy & the dream. Doing other arts & claiming JKD is not a right anyone has. JKD is simplistic,scientific,non-telegraphic,street defense with a hint of self exploration.That's it-----

 

[green meanie]

I understand what you're trying to say but I think to use the name of the art 'Way of the Intercepting Fist' as the basis of your argument seems somewhat flawed. To say that the only thing you should be doing is intercepting and never trapping by that logic someone else could make the same argument that you shouldn't be using the jab to the eyes or side kick to the knee you described because this is supposed to be the 'Way of the Intercepting Fist'.

 

[monkey]

I know im not supose to name drop but Ill say this (My teacher made it clear-dont fixate-as the fight is multi dimention & could have many attackers as well.If you fixate like grapple or jurus of silat .
You have that hold or juru to focus on & not the attacker.To eliminate
this ,traps were dropped.There are ways we use the art -looks & acts like traps but it is the illution of quick hand change & press with a hit.If you want to see go to serch.type monkey & see it.i demo at a seminar.

 

[green meanie]

All I'm saying is you're going to have to find something else to be the backbone of your argument. Using the name 'Jeet Kune Do = Way of the Intercepting Fist' = intercepting ONLY, as your source of reasoning and the backbone of your case seems not only flawed but terribly, terribly weak. :asian:

 

[Jimi]

Where you just on your soapbox, or are you trying to help lead people in the RIGHT direction. It seems you are inferring that anyone only training JKD and its interceptions is on the true path and anyone experiencing anything else is a lost soul. Sounds like Silat Jurus, Thai Ram Muay and others are all poison.

 

[Robert Lee]

Yes JKD has a given structure. Just as other arts have. You train certion aspects that relate to the art. JKD was and is non classical. Each person develops there JKD as they learn it. Just like other arts the art is the way you learn something. The use is they way you can do it. thats yours no one elses. How it is handed down from person to person It should maintain the structure. JKD Applies to how Bruce handed down what he taught as he was still evolving. Anything else added would be say personal aspects for just that 1 person. is it now JKD to that person it may be there way. Can it be taught as JKD well not really Can it be expressed as a concept that extends with JKD yes as long as its said This is not part of what JKD was in training But helps if you choose to To use it. JKD does have a rounding of the tools Still needs better ground training. But No one person is bound by JKD Or any style or art. Each person should take what they found to beuseful to them thats theres. If they instruct Be it JKD then instruct the learning method they learned by. If more is offered I can agree that it is concepts that can be used Nothing real wrong there Would it be right to put together a mix of different arts and call it JKD and then try to teach it as JKD NO it would not ever be JKD it would be what it is But JKD has been misunderstood Every art has . First They are a training method that gives personal discovery. Not meant they must be done this way. That it self is limatation. Look at a boxer he learns the different ways he can use the few hand tools and movements that allow for delivering them FOOT work. And develops his own style Sure the boxer was coached But in the ring he had to make his way work. Thats his style Each art becomes a coached method of training then each person has to apply what they can do. So even JKD a person has to walk away from to find how they do what they do. We learn from other people we do by doing. Can not be anybody else. Remember bRuce said your art is not my art He meant that for JKD too. no one is like the other person. Each student in any art Will be a seperate JKD has a path that is followed if you choose to learn it it has certion steps that guide you to its method. BUT then you must free your self from the word that being JKD or you limti your self from being able to do it. You that person will be JKD in motion how well you perform what you do represents how well you absorbed what you learned. Will you fight like Bruce because you trained in his art. NO could you ever be better then Bruce at what you do yes. Bruce was Bruce his JKD was his yours is yours Did he understand his JKD better then you ever will Yes it was his. Would he understand your JKD better then You No thats yours. Any way is like a college You attend the college of your choice. Learn the subject matter the relates to what you have chosen. Then you graduate which means you have the training needed now you have to make that training useful in the proffession you have chosen. If you do not understand how to apply it well you do not go as far as others Your job or business does not say The college name on it you represent it from your actions. JKD is a name as that college Its a school of learning You are the person that can apply it. After that it has no name its part of who you become. It deserves the credit for help you achive your abilty But now all you have learned from it is yours There is no set path Is just how you get there that makes that path a better path. Be it JKD or any art. If you trap and hit you still hit if you intercept you still hit. You do that while you are doing one never knows until they are doing what they will do at one moment to another.
​

 

[monkey]

A point well made.Great post.Let me clairify on an easer term this is exactly how my tacher Bruce staded it .
X = Jeet Kune Do
Y=the style you represent
To represent & teach Y one should drill its members according to the prechings of Y!
This is the same with aneone who is qualified & has been
approved to represent X
To justify by interfacing with x & y is basicaly the denying of y------but still calling it y.
A man,as you are put it ,is one who is noble to stick to the road or path he has chosen.
\A garden of roses will yeild roses,& a garden of violets will yeild violets.End Quote Bruce Lee! 1968--70 Here 1 more quick note In 1965 I.P.A. was added as a letter To James from bruce added Indicert Progressive Attack.This was 1 of the way of attack-
1 attack 2 Saa 3 Pia 4hia 5abc 6abd Ill do a type of lay out next post.

 

[monkey]

Timing ****distance****speed & rythem****agression these merge into

The match> Now for the ways of attack
Attack***Saa***SDA***HIA***IPA***PIA***ABC***ABD> Now for Counterattacks


Stop thrust kick***Time thrust kick***these merged into Counter time>Next

Offensisive defence***4 basic offensive defence***Yieling Parry***Riposte

 

[monkey]

The basic lay out dose not say( any art to use to its founders intent).The basic is just that.If you had a glass of water-& I poor powder of flavor into it.It can be drinkable as water but the( kool aid) made it grape drink & totaly diluted the original conten.If I take 1 or 2 flavor crystals.It is
not diluted,The crystals are not noticed , & yet the property of water is still intack.This is the same way on how to use any art to mix JKD>This is what Bruce stated -Not( ok i grant you licesne go learn every art to intructor level & now you are JKD concepts.No-just a small part that will work but,not upset the continuity of the original format!

 

[Jimi]

Monkey, not sure what you are trying to say. I understand the principles of the Intercepting Fist. I believe that for someone to have a legitimate claim to JKD knowledge, one must have trained in Jun Fan Gung Fu/Jeet Kune Do under someone certified by Bruce or those with association to a legitimat JKD org., just by gathering rank and understanding in a few other arts and blending it into freeform does not JKD make. Are you saying that those who also train in Kali, Silat, Muay or what have you, alongside of JKD are peeing in the pool so to speak?

 

[monkey]

Great questions Id love to answer those.Heres an easy way to see whay Im say.
It's ok to explore into the arts.Bruce told us exsplore.This dose define to
subject to examination.Each of us tend to over kill on the examinations & get cought up in the ways.We forget the resogn why we stated the reseach.
Most research will be for a (term paper) an to use for referance point.
Lets say its on stock.Now you dont need to spend 8 years in collage &
become a stockbroker.Just get the info pertaining to the class is all thats
required.
This is the same for JKD-I dont see anything wrong with 1-4 years in the arts for research.Lets say you do silat.Then why continue & get guru & add advertise title as guru JKD concepts.

 

[Robert Lee]

While several truths lay in the learning of JKD that one truth is you have to make it your own something you do after it was taught to you. Not every step in JKD will be a useful step for each person Now every person can do what JKD trains you Because inpart you have to let go of the thought about are you or you are doing JKD. You are doing what you do. You train it as a JKD method. But do it as your way of doing. If it works then you keep it if not discard it. If you instruct then give it back so others have your same choice. That is JKD. Is it a thought is it a mind set. Is it something you can hold onto. No its just that path of learning you and others have taken I learned to walkas a small child I walk the way I walk. Know thought into which foot goes first and which goes second That is all M/A arts they show you how to walk you have to do the walking. They show you more then just walking they show you how to be a good person. Yes x is not Y and X and Y Are different The idea of JKD can improve a person. Just by exploreing the other arts on a concept that relates to the JKD structure Looking at those arts one helps you better to be able to deal with that method in a combat sence. Taking what you find as a core need found in those arts gives you those tools to decide how you may need those. It is a fact that a person can study 6 months on certion training needs and develop those few tools into a strong resistive selfdefence method. A person never needs a mountion of tools Or a mountion of learning different arts just exposer to better beabl to use what they have. And the proof they need some certion more tools to better handle the different areas of combat. Is therearts that can get a person performing better Yes there is But it is agin like your choice of college and what you want to do. Every person will not be the same. And just a few will rise to the top Thats life. Those that do rise up to the top put more into what they learned by applying it over and over Whats it take to be a top level fighterr dedication. What does it take to be a sucsess at any bussiness dediction. What does it take to be a good teacher understanding how to teach what you have learned That to has dedication. You may not be able to do it as well as others but can teach it better then others. So we good fighters and good teachers Fighters have to seperate from the teaching when they fight or they can not do it. To be both you have to know when to let go. JKD was not as much about teaching as it wasabout doing. But we now have to have both a way to teach it and a way to do it. Like I have said in learning it has a name JKD in doing it has no name at all. And agin all arts have that same path a name to learn by and no name when you do it. Just some arts takes a more direct path To learn something anything at all You start by learning Remember Bruce to said we only have 2 arms and 2 legs. only so many Ways to do something. JKD is a way to do something Karate is another way as is JUdo and othersNo big deal as long as it works for you. Now I like the JKD method and think it offers alot BUt some one else may like Kenpo and think it offers alot. No body likes the same all the time. When its time to fight its not JKD aginst Kenpo its one person aginst the other. the better fighter that time that day is the victor.

 

[monkey]

As far as ranks go my junfan & jeet kune do state level 3 signed & dated with chops by Bruce Lee.I give seminars at one of the Inosanto school in Whitter Ca.Bud Thompson is the owner.I also have a letter of recomndation from James Lee.I dont need tall claims or bragging.
I simply state it -Hopefully none will see it as name dropping or boasting.
It is nationaly known by Ted Wong-Allen Joe-Dan Inosanto-& others I do seminars & I am JKD certified.I hope this is used to your best for info only.

 

[Jimi]

I agree that no-one should achieve Guro,Kru,Sifu etc rank in some other system and claim that rank as JKD concepts. On that same note, no-one ranked as an instructor of JKD can claim mastery of Silat,Kali, Muay Thai what have you, unless they have trained fully to that instructorship in a legit org. Many of those who hold apprentice or full instructor rank in JKD today, also have apprentice or full instructor rank in Kali, Silat, Muay Thai and other arts. That should not diminish their experience with JKD. If some-one has legit rank in both JKD and another art, there is no problem with JKD/Silat etc... If they have no legit rank in either, then that is bogus. If you believe that a JKD instructor showing how a Muay Thai, Silat, Kali tech etc... can help you Intercept/Stop an opponent is polluting JKD, then we are at odds. Don't believe it, and won't agree with it. JKD is discribed as formless so it my assume other forms attributes, not that it will be only what Bruce did in 1964 or 1971. JKD was meant to evolve.

 

[monkey]

Like I said or stated you dont need all the arts totality to understand what can be used.Flavor the art enough to fit you.Dont dilute to show the silat salute-put on a sorong befor you teach-& then Indonisan music.
This was conforming to that art.Bruce stated -karate is like an iron bar wack.Jeet kune do is internal.My punches & kicks hurt inside.
Sure there are many aspect of silat I love to use like se pak to slide
or kalasag kamay the shieling arm.This by no means Im a guru or intend to get that high.I saw what I know will work for me & use it.
My ranks are clearly been seen by Inosanto-Ted Wong & others.Hence for the past few years Im doing seminars in Whiiter,Ca. The Kali Acadey is a well know school that has people like Plink-Inosanto-Dethouras-the late Sulite-The late Lucaylucay-to give a few of the top people besides me .
Go to search-monkey & see the Kali academy & Bud gives Intro That I was private under Bruce.Watch how I use the art of no trapping but still it looks & acts like a trap,Their brain cant function as fast as I demo it.

 

[Jimi]

I never addressed your rank or questioned it. Don't know you, you don't know me. If some-one puts on a sarong and indonesian music, he is teaching silat probably, so what's the issue if they do, they can't have both Silat & JKD? Or you feel that either one does not belong in the other arts class time? I respect some-one who can share insights into other arts along with JKD.

 

[Robert Lee]

No matter the art it can offer something. Yes one art can help enhance another by seeing another way to adapt the art. it sure will not hurt to lookan test. Its about you the person. Just when you call what You teach to be JKD use its structure. Anything else is another path and tell it like it is Remember though JKD never had one fight. But the person trained in JKD yes that person perhaps fought useing JKD methods. Its just a path

 

[monkey]

Jimi Im not at all saying its wrong to put on a sarong in the school.Bruce ment you dont have time in the attack situation if walking down the street to set up music-a sarong-do juurs & long kah forms.The fight is over fast-in seconds inthe street.
It ok like I said to use chi bandar if it fits in that situation.We realy dont need to keep going to guru other then self glorifiying that art.The foundation is the same. May it be you had 1 to 10 years in silat or kali.
Look at kali 12 basic strikes.That says the art there,Were to hit.How you use your body in the fight is not having to go threw the salutes-the grips-wrist turns ect.You hit hard & fast.You might not use a kali hit but the 12 angles were the primary path of the objective.
In kali I dont matter hand-knife-swrod-stick (still the same angles.)The guru title dose not implore you know more then the basic 12.I implies you are skilled in teaching & representing the art.Some kali line have only 12 attack point.JKD used Epie Head to toe!Boxing for body shots!The rest to help show insight of what possable encounter may ocurr on the street.Hence self exploring .We can not ever punch silat or karate.But,if it dosent fall into the depiction of the founder of that art.It is not that art & you can get yelled atin some schools.The missrepresentaion of the art desployed is take with honor.Bruce simple said-Be yourself.Dont emulate the founder of( which is not you) in a fight.It will never work.

 

[Jimi]

I think any who would prep themselves in the moments before a confrontation with some stylized Wai Kru/Ram Muay, Juru-Lhanka, or any salute including the JunFan JKD salute is a fool. I do believe that some who achieves instructor rank in some of these arts have done so to glorify themselves thru the respect of those systems. I do not believe that achieving such rank is any more of a sin than achieving rank in even JKD.

 

[monkey]

I stated all that but why seek 10 years is silat-10 in thaiboxing-10 in kali-10 in grapple ect.The aprent, instructor under Inosanto is 15 years & some take 20 as they do seminars only.Alls I m asking is why put so much time into those arts.JKD under Bruce took 2 years.Dan Inosanto 2yrs.Jame Yimm Lee 2 years.Ted Wong got level 1 from Bruce.Most like Tackett ect got theres from Inosanto from the back yard group.73-5! 2 years for JKD.If you have JKD & Truely have it.Realy you dont need any other,Yes its fun to keep studing .
You dont get board-you amass lots of skills.But here in lays the fact that lots caant seperate JKD & concepts.If I show you boxing for 2 years.Now you gho learn gymnastics & ninja skills & thai boxing.This dosent make it Boxing concepts.To many do this mix & asume it ok Tae Bo- for 1.If you can truely differ on the drills of JKD & what it was-then all the kali -silat ect can enhance to a point.Too much clouds thoughts -judgements-reaction ect.JKD is formless.NOT 1 juru-Shapeless NOT 1 style in compleat & totaly intack with history-ect.JKD is simplistic.IF silat & kali ect were simly Why dose it take so long to learn.Look At 1-4 fight methods.This is a primor for JKD.