In over my head.

Discussion in 'General Self Defense' started by thardey, Mar 23, 2010.

  1. thardey

    thardey Master Black Belt

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    Because the "streets" (or parks, or any public place that doesn't cost money to be at) get him away from his mother and her abusive boyfriend.

    Which brings me to an update: The CPA has already given custody of the younger brother to his grandmother, (because of the mother's refusal to stay away from the violent and abusive boyfriend) and this week the sheriff required Brendon to go back to school, even if he doesn't get credits.

    So that's good news (that's he back in school) and I think it may actually help get him into a job after school hours.
     
  2. Brian King

    Brian King Master of Arts

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    Understanding that your church does not have enough resources to pay the young man for work but there are other rewards from doing honest work than cash. Men need to feel that they are needed and appreciated. Grab the young man and the two of you do chores around the church, find some grandmother or old veteran and ‘volunteer’ the young man to help them. Get him doing hard physical work that he can take pride in when finished. Get him doing little house fix ups for some people he may find a talent and skill that he can turn into a career later on in life. His volunteering will look good on collage applications and give him pride in his accomplishments and if you are helping him gives him at least one role model on how a man behaves. Even a little work with the right 'supervisor' and supervision can offer lessons that can change this young mans family tree. It is not easy being 15 and not having a good male role model in his life, just your understanding and being there for him might make a difference. For yourself, you have to be prepared for failure. Praise to Him no matter the ‘finale’ outcome.
    Good luck and God Bless
    Regards
    Brian King
     
  3. kidswarrior

    kidswarrior Senior Master

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    Having worked with gang members for awhile, I see some good suggestions here already, e.g, some kind of productive pastime (paid or hobby) and strong mentoring. But unfortunately, that is sometimes not enough.

    Over the years, I've seen gangs back off a kid for two reasons. 'Going christian' is usually respected by Hispanic gangs (norteno & sureno are the two umbrella designations). Whether cool or not, if it keeps him from getting jumped every time he walks out the door, it may have its appeal.

    The second thing I've seen is, a match fight sponsored by older gang members (those who don't outgrow the gang at adulthood, but keep on in the life). I realize this sounds abhorrent, and I hate violence myself. I am not advocating this, but desperate times and all that. Think of it as a vaccination against some larger evil. The older members set up the time and place of the match and guarantee no weapons, etc. I had a kid do this awhile back, and both he and the other guy got in their licks, and then it was squashed. NOTE, though, both parties must show up or it becomes an automatic green light on the no-show. I hate to even post this, but do so out of empathy for the boy's dilemma.

    The thing with Hispanic gangs (in my experience) is, it's all about turf. So the more turf you can claim from your enemies, the more powerful you are. This has a correlation; a gang is only as strong as the enemies it defeats. So the back-and-forth is a way of life. Fighting and even defeating once or twice a roving clique will only intensify his rivalry with them. Until he joins them, he's an enemy from whom they draw power by the contest. Even defeating one small group a time or two will only heighten the violence the next time. No winning that way.

    Anyway, best wishes and I think we'd all like to know how it's going if you can offer updates. The young man is fortunate to have a male adult who cares so deeply.
     
  4. Sukerkin

    Sukerkin Have the courage to speak softly

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    Very wise words from Brian and Kidswarrior there :bows of respect:
     
  5. Andy Moynihan

    Andy Moynihan Senior Master

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    Is there a Civil Air Patrol squadron in his area?

    www.cap.gov

    If he does Young Marines nce a week he'll dig this another once a week and that's another once a week he can't be bothered.

    EDIT: Here are the nearest 3 units to Eagle Point, OR:


    8.0 miles
    View Map MEDFORD COMPOSITE SQDN
    Unit Contact: Lt Col Mark S Herrett
    Contact Phone: (541) 482-4581
    Contact e-mail:
    Meeting Address: 5060 CIRRUS DRIVE
    DELZELL MEMORIAL HANGAR
    MEDFORD, OR 97504
    Unit Web Address:
    Meeting Time: 1900 TUESDAY
    Charter Number: PCR OR007Unit Notes:


    20 miles
    View Map ASHLAND SENIOR FLIGHT
    Unit Contact: Capt Christopher V W Adams
    Contact Phone: (541) 482-9152
    Contact e-mail: chris@cvwahomes.com
    Meeting Address: ASHLAND/PARKER AIRPORT
    CAP HANGER
    ASHLAND, OR 97520
    Unit Web Address:
    Meeting Time: 1900 Tuesday
    Charter Number: PCR OR054
    Unit Notes: MEETINGS ARE 1ST & 3RD TUES. 2ND & 4TH TUES WE MEET WITH MEDFORD SQDN.


    33 miles
    View Map GRANTS PASS COMPOSITE SQDN
    Unit Contact: Maj Dan W Dirksen
    Contact Phone:
    Contact e-mail: ddirksen@charter.net
    Meeting Address: 1440 BROOKSIDE BLVD
    MERLIN, OR 97532
    Unit Web Address: gpcap.cjb.net
    Meeting Time: 1900 TUESDAY
    Charter Number: PCR OR037
    Unit Notes:
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2010
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  6. Omar B

    Omar B Senior Master

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    I second that man. I have a sorta similar story when I first moved to NY. My area is a Latin Kings stronghold and I don't go in for that sort of thing. One day the old lady next door saw me changing my father's tire that had gone flat overnight. So she invited me in to help her with the sink. Next thing you know I was fixing garage doors, unclogging sinks etc all over my block. Turns out I met one of my best friends Mike because of this, he lived across the street, now he works full time buying and restoring houses for resale.
     
  7. Archangel M

    Archangel M Senior Master

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    Most of the "pressure" and "getting beat up" from gangs happens because the kid is hanging out with people or in places where the gangs frequent. Getting a job or something to keep him occupied is good advice and probably the best option next to moving away, which is the best yet most difficult solution.
     
  8. Brian King

    Brian King Master of Arts

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    Pastor you said that he has Filipino blood flowing in him. I know it is a small town, but start getting him involved in his heritage and culture. It is a proud warrior culture with strong family ties, and training hard is a good way of keeping out of trouble, idle hands and all that. Put a couple of rattan sticks into his hands to keep them from being idle. Go onto the FMA area of this board or that FMA board that Bob runs and find a seminar somewhere in Oregon being held. Grab the young man and go to it. Give him a taste and at the same time getting yourself a workout partner, how cool is that. Find another seminar that is 3 months out and tell him if he does good in school you will take him to that one as well, then find another and another…


    Another thing that you might talk to the young man about (and talk to him about it more than once or three times) is the perspective of time. He is 15 and the world seems to spin so slowly at that age. Not yet able to drive, vote or even join the military. You have to convince the young man that time is on his side if he can develop patience. You did not say if he was intelligent and does well in school. This young man must keep his nose clean for only a couple of more years then he can ‘escape’ his circumstances. School and military have helped many youths that have been at risk. If he can keep his grades up he might be able to get into a college and or the military and away from the gang lifestyle. Both will give him the time and tools to develop into a young man who might be able to return and help others that are in his circumstance. Three years is not so long to us in our 40’s but to a 15 year old oh man it is three lifetimes.


    Helping a young man and his grandmother is great. God has a plan and often uses people that are weak and bucking the odds to accomplish His work. You might be able to help this young man become something in life or he might become yet another statistic breaking his grandmother’s heart no matter how hard you work and pray for him. You can only try. I would warn against getting too involved with the gangs unless you are positive that God has called you to it. Dogs and fleas. It is a negative lifestyle and effects all around it whether or not directly involved. Rather than focusing on the gangs in this boy’s life focus on the boy. The gang problem is just his battle, and in my opinion it is a spiritual battle and it could just as easily be drugs, crime, pornography or any of the many other pitfalls that can limit or ruin young men. Pray about ways of giving him the tools needed to recognize and resist these temptations and evils in his life.


    Again good luck
    Regards
    Brian King
     
  9. thardey

    thardey Master Black Belt

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    Update for you all

    It's been sort of a blend of all the advice, and I got a chance to make some headway yesterday.

    He's agreed to come help me one afternoon a week at the church, especially to help set up a storage area to be used for a youth group area, with TV, pool table, etc.

    While clearing the area out, I started talking to him about my family's past -- the Irish/americans, and the struggles they faced with gangs after the potato famine in the 1840's.

    Using history of those gangs, through the prohibition, and even into a couple of generations ago, I talked about one way the Irish started getting out from that lifestyle: many of the became Police officers.

    The thinking is that they were still respected for being "tough" but they weren't seen as being "traitors" since they ended up protecting the other Irish families from being taken advantage of. The other plus is that in our county right now, there is no college requirement for applying to be a sheriff. I don't think there is for the city police, either, but I'm not sure.

    That got his attention, and it's the first time I've seen him get interested in any kind of long-term solution. He simply believes that college is out of reach -- but this is a carreer he could sink his teeth into.

    I had also mentioned about the CAP, and he wants to look into that -- since he's already part of the Young Marines, he's getting a good foundation for CAP and eventually police training.

    The other thing I was (unexpectedly) able to talk with him about was his clothing. I wasn't going to push that, because I figured it was a decision he had to make -- but the school district will only allow him to re-enroll if he signs a "no gang" contract -- including not wearing red -- not only at school, but in off hours.

    Bold Red (gang red) is his favorite color, and he was having a hard time with that. But he wears it because it has an effect on people around him. I was able to talk with him about the psychological effects of wearing red, and how many people respond defensively.

    I suggested that instead of seeking attention from wearing confrontational colors, that he try dressing a little more "upper class" than the other students. Dress shirts instead of basketball jerseys, leather shoes instead of red converse, etc. Not preppy, but just a bit of style.

    People around here are easily "impressed" by such thngs as button-down shirts -- even a little intimidated. I think it will also get him more respect from the teachers -- meaning more help with school.

    He's got a strong enough personality that he won't look like a nerd -- so I'm not worried about that.

    With all that in mind, he decided to sign the contract, ditch the gang-like outfits, and dress a little more "grown up."

    So, I get him for a couple of hours a week, he's moving away from the gang-style clothing, and is starting to plan for the future.

    There's hope for him yet!
     
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  10. jks9199

    jks9199 Administrator Staff Member

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    Again -- check with your local police and/or sheriff's departments. They may have an Explorer program, which would allow him to get some exposure to the real world of law enforcement... and give him a built in out for some of the pressures he's facing.
     
  11. thardey

    thardey Master Black Belt

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    A good friend of mine recently started in the Police, and Brendan really respects him, too. I'm going to see if I can get his help in setting him up.

    Some of the Young Marine instructors (commanders?) are also in the sheriff's dept., as well -- I think that's the closest we have to an explorer program. Everything sort of overlaps.
     
  12. thardey

    thardey Master Black Belt

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    Nevermind . . . I just found the Explorer program

    I had to dig for it, though, never would have found it if you hadn't suggested it.

    Thanks!
     
  13. LuckyKBoxer

    LuckyKBoxer Master Black Belt

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    I dont know if it has been suggested here yet, but the Marine Corps run a program called the Devil Pups.... disregard the name it is not what it sounds like... It is a mini boot type program they run for kids who are in rough situations. I myself did the camp about 20 something years ago. I stll have great memories of it, if nothing else it will get him away from the situation and into a structured program for a while during the summer. I strongly recommend it.
     
  14. Andy Moynihan

    Andy Moynihan Senior Master

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    And that's GOOD.

    That way he knows people in all different positions of good guy authority and has better, well connected role models in a safety net kind of way.

    You hang out with alpha dog people you get alpha dog friends and may just learn how to become one yourself.
     
  15. blink13

    blink13 Green Belt

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    It worked in the movie!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gran_Torino_%28film%29


    Regarding getting around the area - easy enough to do on bike, at least while the weather's not too horrible. I spent a few weeks in Ashland and was able to ride up to Medford and around the area north of there a few times.
     
  16. qwksilver61

    qwksilver61 Brown Belt

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    Mr Thardley,Don't know what to tell you...this has been the story of my whole life,and you would think that as you get older the bullies go away...
    they don't.Being 3 1/4's German and 1/4 Native American,Dad stationed in Europe, American service man,mixed blood,dark skinned, German speaking,old German,old Native heritage.People really don care,they judge based on what they see.It's worse now than it ever was.Fix,don't be the bad guy...the kids fix,wish he did not have to be the bad guy,I would not wish his situation on anyone.I grew up getting my a@# kicked,and don't ever carry a chip,or judge
    people as a whole.Wish I could help him.He does need allies or Police intervention,I don't have the real answers.I will pray for him.
     
  17. BLACK LION

    BLACK LION Black Belt

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    In my pubescent years I was troubled with this same issue and since it was in the height of the gang infuence on our society(late 80's early 90's)I really had no options since my father was not walking me to and from school and going to every class with me... The varmints still find time and ways to get to me and I was jumped countless times even from those who were considered friends.
    Its ugly but the only way to get them out is to keep them busy with things that are productive and make sure you are taking an active role in his reality. Sometimes those little varmints just need to know there is a grown man standing by ready to bring a reckoning thier way if need be.
    In training give him the tools he needs to succeed against the lowliest of scum and train him to numb himself to stimulus and avoid thier taunting.
    He wants to be cool but he does not want to be cool in that way so he needs to be guided on the path to becoming a sheepdog...its either that or a wolf...or worse a sheep that gets caught alone and torn to pieces.

    This is a tuffy, no doubt but if he has a MAN to look up to then it will be easier for him to find the will to overcome... Teach him not to give those scumbags dominion over him...they dont deserve it and they are not going to just come and take it.

    We did have to change schools and move because of the unwanted gang trouble my older brother got into... This was in the days were they would scope you out and jump you at random and then tell you to claim thier set...if you did not they would find you and kill you. I knew a few people that were forced into this situation and had no out.... All but one had no FATHER figure to stand by them so they just accepted it.
    My father said F-that he would take off work and follow us to every class if he had to until they got the message that they werent dealing with his sons they were dealing with him.123
     
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