I don't understand??

[lonekimono10]

I hope someone can help me to understand, the other day i got a call from one of my BB's (he has been a BB for I year) he said to me that he would like to start his own style, i told him all the things that a teacher tells his or her student's but WHY DO YOU WANT TO DO THIS? i also said to him that he has not the time line in the arts and that people will say things about it.
i also told him to remember my time line and when i started in 1965, i don't understand?? if someone can add something please i can use some help here.

 

[Flying Crane]

Start his own style? and he wants, I assume, to be Grandmaster?

Given you say he has been a black belt for only a year, I assume he is First Degree. Does he have experience in other systems? What is his approach to this, is it combining elements of several systems into one, or just changing what he has learned from you? If he wants to combine several arts, why not just keep practicing several arts without the charade that he made something new out of them. Remixing what already exists is not a new style, in my opinion.

I agree, this is bizarre, but not to be unexpected with how things go in the martial arts today. Everyone wants to be grandmaster, or make a big business out of it and this is one way to do it. I am sorry but not sure what to suggest. Please give us some more background on what his approach to this is and any other experience he may have. At least then maybe we can try to understand where he is coming from. I probably still wouldn't be supportive of it, but at least knowing what his full background is might help with the discussion.

 

[Kosho-Monk]

Master Elmer,

Perhaps you could explain to this student that he should ask himself how much he believes he knows and how much he believes there is left to learn. If he thinks about these things maybe it will help him.

But maybe their is something else going on. Perhaps he is bored and not feeling like he's getting any better. If that's the case then maybe he feels that he's the best he can be.

Asking him straight out why he wants to do this is probably the best approach to get directly to the issue.

Hmmm. Another idea is to ask him to show you the curriculum for his new system. Ask him to explain the new concepts and principles that he'll be teaching. Ask what his system teaches that is different from what you or someone else teaches. This might get him thinking or least opening up more to you.


With respect,
John Evans

 

[lonekimono10]

His mother art is what i teach, i will be talking to him later and will try to understand what's going on, why do they think they know more then they do?

 

[Flying Crane]

Well, this is actually kind of interesting. I would suggest you just be open with him and try to get a dialog going without making him feel like he is being attacked for his idea. Hopefully the foolishness of the idea will come clear to him, but in the meantime try to understand where he is coming from and why he thinks he wants to do this, and why he thinks he is capable and qualified to do this.

 

[lonekimono10]

Well, this is actually kind of interesting. I would suggest you just be open with him and try to get a dialog going without making him feel like he is being attacked for his idea. Hopefully the foolishness of the idea will come clear to him, but in the meantime try to understand where he is coming from and why he thinks he wants to do this, and why he thinks he is capable and qualified to do this.

i will do my best thanks

 

[arnisador]

I'd want to know if this is simply ego ("I've always wanted to be the founder of my own art--I have no idea what it'll look like yet") or a deep-seated conviction ("I've developed my own personal style over the years, and I believe it's worth codifying and sharing with others"). In my experience, it's generally the former. For every Morihei Ueshiba or Jigaro Kano or Bruce Lee who has a great new idea and a truly different expression of the art, there are a hundred people who want to be called Soke.

 

[modarnis]

Its sad, but many view BB as an endpoint. Most of us, who have spent the majority of our lives training, realize it is only one stop on a long journey. My guess is you already know which way any conversation will end up

Of course people often want to use the arts to make a living. With that, they look to call themselves master or grandmaster to have credibility. They are cheating themselves, and certainly doing a disservice to their instructors who paid dues before them with sweat and dedication

 

[Seabrook]

So many martial artists think they know more than they do, but yikes, a black belt of one year....

He is just starting a new stage of his training.

The double-bar syndrome is spreading.

 

[Rick Wade]

Recommend pointing him in the direction of Bruce Calkins thread and ask him if he wants to be like this.

Bruce obviously has some knowledge of the Martial Arts but not near enough to be a founder of his own style.

Let history be his teacher, in this case bad history.

V/R

Rick English

 

[lonekimono10]

So many martial artists think they know more than they do, but yikes, a black belt of one year....

He is just starting a new stage of his training.

The double-bar syndrome is spreading.

MR Seabrook you took the words right out of my mouth,
by the way he will be with me at the camp that you and i will be teaching at

 

[DavidCC]

Maybe he should be shown how much he doesn't know yet...

Every time I think I have found something that my instructor isn;t aware of, he sho sme how he tried to teach me that last year and I didn't get it It's frustrating and encouraging at the same time.

 

[Dark Kenpo Lord]

I hope someone can help me to understand, the other day i got a call from one of my BB's (he has been a BB for I year) he said to me that he would like to start his own style, i told him all the things that a teacher tells his or her student's but WHY DO YOU WANT TO DO THIS? i also said to him that he has not the time line in the arts and that people will say things about it.
i also told him to remember my time line and when i started in 1965, i don't understand?? if someone can add something please i can use some help here.

I remember having a similar conversation with you about the same thing George, didn't stop you either. Let him do what HE WANTS to do, that's what you did.

DarK LorD

 

[Touch Of Death]

Let me guess. It will be an adults only death tech style because the master doesn't understand the value of control.
Sean

 

[Sam]

The double-bar syndrome is spreading.

What's this?

 

[lonekimono10]

I remember having a similar conversation with you about the same thing George, didn't stop you either. Let him do what HE WANTS to do, that's what you did.

DarK LorD

well frist clyde this is not the same thing and i have more time in the art's then him, but look this is not about ME,and i did not try to do something
as a !st dregee BB , and as far as me doing what i wanted to do maybe if you checked out about what I did you would understand a little better,
thanks for the put down i know everyone has something to say about people in the arts, and i KNOW YOU HAVE alot to say (u always do)

thanks.

 

[Flying Crane]

What's this?

I think it is in reference to the two large red bars worn on the end of the belt to denote 10th degree black belt.

 

[eyebeams]

Recommend pointing him in the direction of Bruce Calkins thread and ask him if he wants to be like this.

Bruce obviously has some knowledge of the Martial Arts but not near enough to be a founder of his own style.

Let history be his teacher, in this case bad history.

Why? If he followed in the footsteps of Parker and a whole host of kenpo pioneers, he'd definitely found his own style.

The Calkins threads amused me because the difference between him and the founders of the styles studied by his critics is not that big.

 

[Sapper6]

Why? If he followed in the footsteps of Parker and a whole host of kenpo pioneers, he'd definitely found his own style.

The Calkins threads amused me because the difference between him and the founders of the styles studied by his critics is not that big.

Ed Parker had talent and skill.

i wouldn't suggest equating Calkins with Parker. you'd be disappointed.

 

[eyebeams]

Ed Parker had talent and skill.

Eventually, yes. Though the average martial artist has much better technical skills than in previous decades.* Talent went farther in the past than it does now. Now that physical skills development is supported by scientific methods at all levels, the winners from the prior hit and miss approach cant get by on their raw ability.

In essence: A great number of style founders (not just kenpo and not just in the US) would not be able to credibly do so in the current environment -- and that's even leaving aside dodgy belt and lineage questions.

*Technical skill and fighting ability are not exactly the same thing.