How to handle the aggressive new guy?

[blackandblue]

Last week a new guy came into our jiujitsu studio (I heard him saying he trained at another school) and I got the opportunity to grapple with him. He fought wild. When trying to pass the guard, he landed a knee on my head. And when I had him in the guard, he put his elbow on my neck so hard it could have been a strike. Anyway, I got pretty upset and decided to take it to his level, giving him my own elbow on the neck when an opportunity presented and also a knuckle drive into the lower throat when he tried to get a cross-lapel choke. I'm not proud of this. I totally lost my cool. But this guy was a freak and later in the evening he cranked a foot look on somebody after the person tapped. But what is the protocol? How do you tell him to chill out while not coming across as a loser? Has anyone else experienced this and what happened?

 

[Shodan]

Yeah- this is a hard issue to deal with. There used to be a guy in our class that would take things just a little further once you tapped out- twisting your arm just a bit more, etc. Or if you were sparring and got a strike in on him, his whole goal the rest of the night was to get you back......and often twice (or more) hard than you'd gotten him....he became a head hunter!! I have this guy on video kicking me in the head AFTER I had bowed out to fix the velcro on my sparring boot. I was leaning over fixing it and he comes in and kicks me right in the head!!

Sometimes people from other studios are used to going harder/softer than the new studio they go to or join. Maybe this would be best handled by talking to your instructor. I'm sure you are not the only one feeling he is a bit out of control and what if he really hurts someone?

We took the issue to our instructor who handled it nicely. Sometimes it doesn't go so well though and these folks will continue to just do what they do.......that's when maybe keeping them paired with someone more advanced or someone who likes the same sort of play may be the best idea.

Good luck with this.

:asian: :karate:

 

[bignick]

If you ask them to change their ways and they can't seem to adapt maybe it's time for them to move on...

 

[BlackCatBonz]

tell him not to mistake an act of kindness for weakness......anyone can play dirty pool.

 

[Feisty Mouse]

I might remind him - or have the instructor remind him, before the next class - that he gets to train with someone else provided that he respects them and their physical safety. Training with others is an issue of trust - "loaning" your body to someone for their training, so they "loan" theirs to you for your training.

I would make it quite clear that if his juvenile tactics don't stop, you will opt not to work with him - or the instructor should make it clear he will be asked to leave, if he can not train safely.

Sounds like a liability waiting to happen.

 

[Tidy_Sammy]

Tell him how you feel or mention it to your instructor, he maybe just needs tamed down a little.​

 

[MJS]

Last week a new guy came into our jiujitsu studio (I heard him saying he trained at another school) and I got the opportunity to grapple with him. He fought wild. When trying to pass the guard, he landed a knee on my head. And when I had him in the guard, he put his elbow on my neck so hard it could have been a strike. Anyway, I got pretty upset and decided to take it to his level, giving him my own elbow on the neck when an opportunity presented and also a knuckle drive into the lower throat when he tried to get a cross-lapel choke. I'm not proud of this. I totally lost my cool. But this guy was a freak and later in the evening he cranked a foot look on somebody after the person tapped. But what is the protocol? How do you tell him to chill out while not coming across as a loser? Has anyone else experienced this and what happened?

This problem needs to be addressed ASAP!!!! It appears that this guy is not interested in learning anything, but instead to see how many people he can hurt with his "tough guy" mentality!

I have encountered a person like this at a grappling class that I was assisting my inst. with at a local university. Unfortunately 2 things happened that night. One, he cranked my left leg back very quick and hard, which resulted in me coming very close to tearing my ACL. The second, was that after that happened, I, like you, retaliated with an armlock and choke. I then proceeded to lecture him in front of the entire class about the need for control. Due to his carelessness, I was unable to do much of anything for a few months while the injury was healing.

Now, was this proper for me to do? Giving him the lecture yes, but should I have cranked him twice?? Probably not, but until the last few seconds of the match, things were going well, so I really had no indication of what was to come. In your situation, things got off to a wild start from the get go, so the match should have been stopped right away and the problem addressed.

Don't get me wrong...I'm all for picking up the pace a little. Provides for a little mutual challenge, but notice the key word here... mutual Before the pace is picked up, it needs to be agreed upon by both people participating.

Mike

 

[WilliamJ]

In general my approach is to tap guys who are being over aggressive and tap them often and painfully. But if they start injuring people they have to go. And what was a newbie doing working leg locks anyways? That's a major no, no at the gym where I train. Leg locks are for for students who have shown they have control, generally blue belts and above.

 

[Lisa]

IMHO, All new people I have seen to grappling tend to be overly aggressive usually for one of two reasons.

Firstly, because they feel they have something to prove at the new school and want to show off their "skill". Depending on the atmosphere of the school and the tolerance of your teacher, they usually settle down or disappear quickly.

Secondly, they use strength as opposed to skill because they haven't learned any skill yet so they try to compensate. They don't want to be "embarassed" and tapped out all the time. If this guy "fought wild", my guess is that he has little or no technique and his claim to training elsewhere could raise an eyebrow, but not knowing for sure... I digress.

In my school, the instructor is the one who works with the new guy first. I hear a lot of "relax" come from my instructor to the new guys. Most calm down after a while and once the basics are down, usually turn out to be good training partners.

I am really sorry to hear that this guy seems to be a bit of an... well you know. Talk with your instructor. Truly it is his responsibility to ensure the safety of his students. A good instructor realises we all have to leave the mat and go to work the next day. A good businesman knows that if one wild dog takes out his students, he won't be a businessman for long.

:asian:

 

[MJS]

And what was a newbie doing working leg locks anyways? That's a major no, no at the gym where I train. Leg locks are for for students who have shown they have control, generally blue belts and above.

I agree! Just for clarification, leg locks were not the focus of the class that night. The main portion of the class was covering the basic positions. As I was attempting a mount during the free rolling session, he somehow caught my leg and pulled back. Now, where he picked that up from I don't know, but I do not believe that it was at my instructors class.

Mike

 

[loki09789]

Last week a new guy came into our jiujitsu studio (I heard him saying he trained at another school) and I got the opportunity to grapple with him. He fought wild. When trying to pass the guard, he landed a knee on my head. And when I had him in the guard, he put his elbow on my neck so hard it could have been a strike. Anyway, I got pretty upset and decided to take it to his level, giving him my own elbow on the neck when an opportunity presented and also a knuckle drive into the lower throat when he tried to get a cross-lapel choke. I'm not proud of this. I totally lost my cool. But this guy was a freak and later in the evening he cranked a foot look on somebody after the person tapped. But what is the protocol? How do you tell him to chill out while not coming across as a loser? Has anyone else experienced this and what happened?

Bring it to the head instructor's attention. Hopefully there was some kind of code of conduct orientation about courtesies and such already. Either way, you are totally within your rights to refuse to train with someone that you see as unsafe. Don't do it. Period. If you think that you can do it, and it will be recieved properly, try talking to him directly about levels of intensity and safety/trust. He may be trying to impress the established 'crew' and isn't just training.

Personal level, you are in charge of who you work with first and foremost.
Class level, instructors are in charge of maintaining a productive and safe training floor. If your instructor is blowing it off, he may see the light when people refuse to work with this guy. If the instructor isn't on your side....you might have exposed two people to get away from.

 

[theletch1]

Everyone elses suggestion that you should approach the head instructor is right on the money. I also have to agree with Nalias' points on this. If the guy just tried out another school for a freebie then he has no experience to speak of and may have the idea that grappling is only what he's been able to pick up watching the UFC or something. Maybe just a gentle reminder to "take it easy, we're here to learn not kill each other" would be all that it takes to wake him up a little.

 

[Whitebelt]

I got an aggressive new kid in me tkd class too.We where cricle sparring, he kicked me, i blocked it but stumbled out the circle (ur ment 2 stop) , he jumped out and it me another 10 times! In the next round i stood on his foot and returned the favour.It seems to have worked.

 

[MA-Caver]

While it's been ages since I've been in any formalized school environment. IMO guys like these either need to be put in thier place by the (senior) instructor...verbally and privately. Jr. Instructors need to keep an eye on these guys to make sure they're not reverting back if they've accepted the Sr's word to Knock it off! It's their school and thus their rules and codes of conduct.
If the guy persists then a Jr. or Sr. instructor should "playfully" put them in their place. Hopefully the guy will understand and straighten up.
Humiliation isn't a great thing. Intimidation is just as bad. Both, IMO, don't have any place in a MA school.
I concur that the staff of any school reserves the right to dismiss and refuse a student from further training if they're not willing to take it seriously and are just throwing their weight around.
It's these guys that give (any) MA a bad name.

respectfully
~R~

 

[Feisty Mouse]

I completely agree that you should have an instructor talk to this guy.

In addition, I think knowledgeable students should be able to - politely - stick up for themselves. I've been in several training situations where I waited for the instructor to notice something, or talk to him later, and in the meantime, I was injured. I'm not such a fan of that anymore.

 

[MA-Caver]

I completely agree that you should have an instructor talk to this guy.

In addition, I think knowledgeable students should be able to - politely - stick up for themselves. I've been in several training situations where I waited for the instructor to notice something, or talk to him later, and in the meantime, I was injured. I'm not such a fan of that anymore.

Yes, you're right. Part of MA I believe is the ability to find a way OUT of a "fight". Using the mind to think and to reason. To talk the aggressor down (if possible). A class-room setting is ideal for this.
If the guy however; puts off this "aww, s'matter? tooo rough for ya? " attitude, then I'd walk away from them (after bowing) and find the instructor and get their attention (without interuppting of course) and let them know.
A good instructor will take care of it asap.
A guy with that kind of piss-poor attitude of "awww, tooo rough for ya?" will usually be unreasonable ("aww c'mon get tough!") or patronizing (" ohh, alllright I won't hurt you anymore... geez") which is detrimental to any training. I'd avoid training with this guy until he's gone or adjusts the attitude.

 

[hardheadjarhead]

Use your words.

Beginners are often scared. They're scared they'll get hurt or they're scared they won't measure up to the instructor's (or your) expectations. Talk to him, tell him to chill out and relax, ask him to slow down.

Taking it to his level leads to injury and can get the class instructor angry, if not sued. If the guy is still going berserk, the instructor ought to sit him down on the sidelines and read him the riot act...or give him the boot. If handled properly, the guy can grow from it.

The old rule "If a nail sticks out, hammer it down," doesn't find much application in our culture.

Regards,


Steve

 

[Tgace]

Had a guy In my class who was like that, it was all about his "not loosing" than it was about learning anything or allowing anybody else to learn...he was given the boot.

 

[still learning]

Hello, Yes! Most of the post agree on "You should let your instructor know" others may get injury or hurt. When the grappling becomes too real "the strikes?hitting very hard? Is not necessary for training.

Years ago when training in Tan Soo Doo we had a black belt (military guy) who came from Korea, looking for a school to train in. White belt at the time and he would hit everyone in class very hard. By the time it got to the upper ranks to spar with each other , a real fight got started because the other black-belt would hit him back hard too. That was the first and last time we ever saw him. Do we need to "hit" that hard to learn? ........Aloha

 

[MA-Caver]

Hello, Yes! Most of the post agree on "You should let your instructor know" others may get injury or hurt. When the grappling becomes too real "the strikes?hitting very hard? Is not necessary for training.

Years ago when training in Tan Soo Doo we had a black belt (military guy) who came from Korea, looking for a school to train in. White belt at the time and he would hit everyone in class very hard. By the time it got to the upper ranks to spar with each other , a real fight got started because the other black-belt would hit him back hard too. That was the first and last time we ever saw him. Do we need to "hit" that hard to learn? ........Aloha

Should hit hard enough to let the other person know they've been hit. But not to the point where it will cause pain. People do have different tolerances for pain of course and those sparring/training together should start out lightly (not baby taps) and then work up to where the other person will say "okay that's tolerable," and then condition/discipline themselves to constantly strike at that level consistently.
When I helped Ceicei practice for her green and brown belts she hit me anywhere from light to medium strikes (that what it felt to me). With her medium strikes I felt them but wasn't hurt or even thinking twice about them. Wasn't even sore (except for that ONE btg she gave me that time ) afterwards. But then again, I've been told I've a high tolerance to pain anyway. :idunno: But that's just me.
We learn MA not only to defend but to discipline ourselves mentally + physically and the two working in tandem guided by our emotional content. We know who it is we are faced with and thus should be aware enough to know how hard to strike. Trying to "one up" someone who happens to hit harder makes for a serious fight somewhere down the road. It doesn't take much.
So the watch word is train hard but be careful!